- [Narrator] In collaboration with the "Portland Press Herald", Maine Public presents a Your Vote 2026 primary election special with six of the seven Republican candidates competing in the June 9th gubernatorial primary.

Bobby Charles declined our invitation.

The interviews were prerecorded in our Lewiston studios and our presented here in alphabetical order, starting with Jonathan Bush.

He spoke with Rachel Ohm of the "Portland Press Herald".

- You're the co-founder of Athena Health, the founder of Zeus Health.

You live in Cape Elizabeth, you're married, you have seven kids.

Tell us a little bit more about you and why you're running for governor.

- Well, you got the big blocks there.

I'm a fanatic Maine optimist.

I was able to have the privilege of employing and working in Maine, I got up to about 950 employees, and also had employees in the other 49 states.

And there's no question in my mind that Mainers are grittier, more resilient, funnier, better at taking what life throws at them, which, in a dynamic economy with a lot of automation, is a critical ability.

And it was devastating to see the degree to which that incredible talent is suffocating here as your own coverage showed with our flat and lacking economic growth.

So that's a big thing about me.

And another one is I like running towards fires.

You know, my first job, I actually drove an ambulance from six at night to six in the morning in New Orleans in 1990, which is a time when New Orleans was the most violent city in the country.

And, you know, it was dangerous and it was nasty, a lot of blood and other fluids being squeegeed out of the ambulance by leftover sheets.

But the people who do that work get to be the ones who go into a place where our families are having the worst possible night they could have ever imagined and do something about it, do something consequential.

You know, we have a lot of virtue signaling and other energies on social media that are probably a lot of it from a good place, "I want to be useful, I wanna be helpful.

I want these lives to matter or this movement to happen."

But to go in and actually lay your hands into the mess and do something is incredibly satisfying.

- So I wanna talk about some of your priorities if you were governor.

- [Jonathan] You bet.

- I know you've talked a lot about like shrinking Augusta.

- Shrink Augusta.

- Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

What exactly does that mean?

- Well, obviously, the state budget has doubled, take out inflation, call it 65% increase, over one administration.

That is astonishing when you look at the growth that, again, Maine Public did a nice job covering the lack of growth in Maine, and, in fact, it's worse than that.

It's that the expansion of Augusta, both in terms of the regulatory presence in every decision that every small business makes as well as the sucking sound of the money out of the economy and into the government has suffocated the economy, has actually made the American dream not credible.

It seems, in Maine, that we now export more young people than lobsters, honestly.

And that's got to change.

So the number one priority has gotta be to pull back the bloat.

- So is that just a matter of cutting the budget?

Or how do we do that?

- Yeah, I mean, you know, when you take over a company, there's sort of four questions you ask.

You know, one is, "Do we need this function anymore?"

It probably came from a good place.

We probably started it with the best of intentions, but in the relative scheme of everything else we're dealing with, do we need to keep doing this, in this case, at the state level?

Is it duplicated?

One of the things you find in Maine is there are lots and lots of duplicated processes between the state and the City or the town.

Lots of the same questions, but being reviewed by two different people on two different schedules.

It's just astonishing the amount of delay and cost that it inflicts on critical functions like the ability to build a house, the ability to build a business, things that we then live in and live on.

So that's the second test.

The third test is, "Can it be automated?"

You know, "Is it being done manually?"

It could be done automated or remotely instead of in person.

Again, everywhere I look in Augusta, it's like the Internet's just arriving to Augusta.

If you wanna know what computers looked like when Jimmy Carter was president, go to Augusta.

And from my world, which was, you know, sort of right on the leading edge of AI, and machine learning, and the Internet, I just can't believe that that's normal there.

And so that'd be the third test is, "Can we automate these things?"

And I've got a lot of folks that would like to do that.

And then, the last test is always, you know, "Are we allowing good judgment?

Are we allowing people to make decisions?"

Or are they so strapped in by process that obvious decisions don't get made quickly, (fingers snapping) but instead get run up many, many flagpoles.

And I think we fail almost all four of those tests in a lot of functions across Augusta, and that'll be the top priority once we get our taxes down.

- So, obviously, you're part of a very famous political family.

And I am curious how that has been received on the campaign trail.

How are people responding to, you know, you're a Bush, and everything that goes with that?

- Yeah, everybody's got an uncle.

Some people are like their uncles, different from their uncles.

For me, it's really important in this campaign for Mainers to get to meet me.

I come from a different dad with a different set of values, different mom, a different role of Maine in my life, a different role of being outspoken, so I think it's important that Mainers will have to get to know me.

I do have the same grandmother as George W., and she did say there's a little bell that rings in the back of your head when you start to talk yourself into doing something you shouldn't do.

And I have that bell, and I think the next governor should have that bell.

And so I'm very proud of the Bushes and the role they've had on my development as a person, as a business person, as a citizen, but I have a different agenda.

I have a different style.

So I hope anybody who's watching who happens to be a Republican, there must be three Republicans watching this, you guys make sure you meet me, okay?

- So I think, at one of the debates you were at, you were asked about your thoughts on Donald Trump.

And how do you see yourself working with the president in your future administration?

Like are there things you agree on?

Things you disagree on?

What are your thoughts there?

- Yes, indeed.

There's things I agree on and disagree on with this president, have with every president in my life.

I don't know anybody who sort of 100% agree with everything.

I mean, I'm sure there are some.

But I think it's very exciting the idea of being able to work with this administration for a couple of years before it moves on.

You can't build your whole administration on that, 'cause if you're gonna be governor for four or eight years, you have Donald Trump for two.

But, for example, we are now one in every three Mainers on Medicare, Medicaid, excuse me, Medicaid, MaineCare care we call it here.

Medicaid is designed in a way that is terrible for rural healthcare development.

It's very hard to get virtual-first healthcare.

We should be a virtual-first healthcare state.

This administration, the folks I know in the CMS, Dr.

Oz, who has a house in Maine, comes up, loves Maine.

These guys would give us delegated authority to run MaineCare in a more digital and virtual way, which would dramatically improve access to primary care and dramatically reduce the cost that we pay per Mainer on it.

I think we probably have too many Mainers on it, and that's another topic that we don't need the president for.

But that's one of many examples.

Transportation funding, all kinds of things with a little bit of flexibility.

And with Susan Collins running appropriations, we can run things much more effectively if the feds will give us flexibility.

And this government, this particular administration, is down for that kind of thing.

- The last question.

Obviously, it's a very crowded primary race.

There's seven candidates.

- I think there's like nine guys not running for something right now.

- What do you think makes you different or like puts you on an advantage compared to the other candidates?

- I tell voters, "Look, these are all good guys.

They all care.

They're all genuinely interested in seeing Maine do better."

Similar ideas, they all think taxes are too high, at least on the Republican side.

I know the Democrat, we just saw one of them actually wanna double down on the new tax and double it, literally double it, not just double down theoretically, but actually double it.

I think we need an outsider this time around.

I think that Augusta's almost becoming a virus, we call the Augusta virus, around our team.

You know, it's just this group, there's this patron-client network where everybody's owed something, and has done a favor for someone, and really needs a favor from someone else.

And so they just can't untangle.

They can't do the cutting that's necessary without hurting friends.

And I think this cutting is badly needed and so I think an outsider.

The other thing is I think it should be a CEO.

There are people that are running that are great public service-oriented people that have just not actually had much in the way of serious operational leadership responsibility.

I've had, you know, significantly more than any of the other candidates, 6,500 employees, managing $30 billion of healthcare collections across 116,000 doctors, helping tens of thousands of small businesses survive healthcare's bureaucracy.

That's as close to a governor role as you can get, and certainly much closer than any of the other candidates running.

So that's my angle on it.

The other guys are great for lots of other reasons, but that's mine.

- Well, thank you so much for doing this.

- It was a privilege to be here.

Thank you.

- [Narrator] Now, here's David Jones who spoke with "Maine Public"'s Kevin Miller.

- David Jones, thank you for coming in and speaking with us.

- Oh, pleasure's mine.

I'm glad to be here.

- You spent a few decades in the construction business here in Maine and elsewhere, but now you co-own a commercial and residential real estate company in your hometown of Falmouth.

- Yeah, it's F.O.

Bailey Real Estate.

It's Maine's oldest, continuous running company.

It was founded 207 years ago, 2-0-7, pretty interesting.

- What makes your business background unique?

What would make you a better potential governor than the other businessmen that you're running against on the Republican ticket?

- Well, for the past 20 years, I've been deeply involved in Maine politics.

I've interviewed presidents, vice presidents, senators, congressmen, legislators, town leaders, selectmen, school board members.

I've been involved in a lot of different things throughout, you know, serious issues here in the state of Maine.

So I think that combined with the fact that I've always been a self-employed, you know, CEO, businessman, makes a big difference.

So I understand what Maine needs.

I understand what Mainers want.

I travel the state routinely and have for the past 30 years.

So, you know, they're all good guys, but, you know, I think I'm the best qualified guy to be the next governor.

- I've heard you say numerous times that you would run the state more like a business.

And, as I'm sure you know, state government and businesses are different entities.

So can you explain that a little bit more?

What would be your philosophy for running the state?

- Well, look, you know, you're transacting dollars, right?

You're running a business, right?

So you've gotta make sure that the money, when you reach into the taxpayer's pockets, that when you take that money out and you hand it to somebody, you're getting something of equal or greater value.

If you're not getting something of equal or greater value, put it back in the pocket and find something that will benefit the people in the state of Maine.

- Back in their pockets, how?

In the form of tax breaks?

- No, we need to lower taxes.

Property taxes are through the roof, right?

We're taxed every which way we turn.

And, you know, it's tough.

You know, we got the elderly, they can't afford to stay in their homes any longer.

They're having to take out mortgages to pay property taxes.

That's not the Maine I want.

- Yeah, now, speaking of housing prices, you've been in real estate for how many years now?

- My entire life since I was 17 years old.

- And I've heard you say that there's certainly a housing crisis here in Maine.

Given your extensive experience, you know, your firsthand knowledge of how the markets have changed here in Maine and how prices have gone up, what would be some of your solutions for lowering the cost of housing especially for lower-income and middle-income Mainers and families?

- Well, we have 135,000 regulations here in the state of Maine.

I mean, regulations cost money and they're roadblocks.

And so it makes it that much more expensive to build a home.

You know, there's just so many things, you know, where each town has their own little niche that they feel they wanna do, or another, you know, this one wants to put fire sprinklers, this one, statewide, we want arc fault breakers, we've got DEP involved in approval, subdivisions.

All these things cost money.

So you just gotta simplify the process.

In Maine, we have a constitutional right to protect our property.

And when a government comes in and says, "Well, you can no longer do this on your property", I have a problem with that.

- Looking at some of the politics involved in campaigns here.

So you've been a strong supporter of President Trump since his first successful run for office back in 2016.

And I've heard you say that you would be President Trump's partner here in Maine.

But the president lost the 2024 election by seven points here in Maine.

I think your support for Trump will obviously probably play well during the Republican primary, but I guess my question would be how do you think a strong pro-Trump candidate will do in November when you have a much larger electorate and lots of folks who maybe aren't so enthusiastic about how President Trump?

- Yeah, that's a great question.

Look, yeah, let's get that out of the way.

I voted for Trump in '16.

I voted for him in '20 and '24.

But what Trump does is for America.

I'm a Maine-first guy.

I care about what Trump does and how it affects the state of Maine.

And, you know, like if Trump did something that negatively affected our state, then, "Hey, I'm sorry, I'm not in."

But I believe it's important that we have a partnership with the federal government, whether it's President Trump or anybody else.

I mean, the idea that I'll see you in court and you call this division, I think, you know, we gotta approach this in a practical way.

I'm look longing for the days of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill when people could have a conversation and not, you know, take shots at one another.

And it's really important that we have that partnership.

There's so many things that need to be done, that we need the federal government's help on.

And if we have those roadblocks in the relationships, which I'm willing to take down, I don't care who the president is, I will work hand in hand to make sure that whatever's done is done right for the people of the state of Maine.

- One part of your platform that I've noticed was your plan to phase out the income tax over five years, I believe.

Explain how you'd do that.

That's a pretty ambitious goal.

- Well, okay, so I've shifted gears a little bit on this one.

Getting rid of the income tax would be fantastic, but who would it benefit the most?

So, you know, I'm traveling all over the state talking to people, you know, every day.

And what I see is we have generational homes, older people, they cannot afford to stay in their home.

So I really kind of shifted towards eliminating property tax on primary physical residence.

I wanna raise the homestead exemption tax to 500,000.

I wanna make sure you live in your home for 183 days or more a year, it's your primary physical residence.

And I think when we go in, and I have a thing, you might heard me talk about it, it's called DOGE, it's David's Office of Government Efficiency, and we're gonna find out where the wastes are, and we're gonna take that money and apply it towards the schools so that we can afford to subsidize the schools so there's no loss for the towns, but then people can stay in their home.

We have to get our people to stay here in the state of Maine.

They're leaving, they're taking out mortgages to pay over their property taxes.

It's not the way it's supposed to be.

So if we eliminate the property tax, you know, you have a $500,000 homestead exemption, it's gonna eliminate property tax for a lot of people and it's gonna really make 'em wanna stay in Maine, make it so they can afford to stay in the state of Maine and, you know, make it a better place for us all.

- How would you pay for eliminating the property tax?

That, obviously, is a pretty sizable chunk of revenue to towns.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Look, so I've said from the beginning, I think I could cut $2 billion off of the spending budget.

I don't think we have a revenue problem.

I think we have a spending problem.

I think what's happened here, it's serious, right?

We've gone from a $7.5 billion budget to $12 billion.

That just doesn't add up in David Jones's book.

And so, when I look at it and I see the programs and the things that we're spending, I think there's some great opportunity to shave it down and reapply that money towards things that'll benefit the people of the state of Maine and that they really want.

- You said on social media, topic of immigration, you said on social media recently that Maine doesn't need more immigrants or people from away.

It needs to spend more time focusing on people who are here in Maine.

But what we hear from the business community is that Maine needs kind of the new blood, needs immigrants, needs folks from away to fill jobs that aren't being filled by Maine residents.

As a businessman, do you disagree with some of the business leaders?

- Hospitality industry's really big here in the state of Maine, HB2 visas.

I mean, really, let's take a look at that.

But, you know, we want people that are gonna come here and work.

You know, I'm an Italian.

My grandparents were from Italy.

My grandfather came here, came through Ellis Island legally, had 13 kids, raised his family, and he didn't take a penny from the government, all right?

So, I mean, he had a pride, and he said the happiest day of his life was when he took the oath to be an American citizen in English.

That's what it's all about.

You know, English is our language.

English is the way of communicating.

I think that anybody that comes here, they have to assimilate into our population.

If they don't wanna assimilate into our population, then why are they here?

We have open arms.

We've demonstrated, we're extremely caring and giving, and we've, you know, tried to help people.

You know, I adopted a girl from Costa Rica.

When she came here, she couldn't speak English.

What did I do?

I sent her to school right away so she could speak English.

Now, she speaks better English than I do.

So yeah, I think that we have to become part of what America is.

And America's great.

- David Jones, thank you very much for talking with us.

- [Narrator] Up next, Garrett Mason with "Maine Public"'s Steve Mistler.

- Garrett Mason, thanks for joining us.

- Thanks for having me.

- You were first elected to the Maine Senate in 2010 during the Republican wave election of that year.

I think you were 25 at the time.

After that, you became the majority leader in the Maine Senate, and then ran for governor in 2018, finished second in that Republican primary.

You're running again, obviously.

But, in between, you've created a public affairs firm.

So you've maintained a presence in Augusta.

And you're also positioning yourself as someone with experience, whereas a lot of other folks in the field are, you know, positioning themselves as outsiders.

Tell me why you think the insider approach is best.

- Well, I think, first of all, thanks for having me.

I appreciate you guys doing the public service you do here.

But, you know, I think first of all, it's important that people understand that there is a level of experience that you need when you walk into the governor's office.

And, you know, when you look at the Republican field itself, there's eight gentlemen in the field, and I'd gladly vote for almost any of 'em.

But I believe, in this election, we need somebody who can go in and understand right away what needs to be done to implement the Republican principles that all of us are talking about.

And I believe I'm the only person that has the relevant life experience to be able to do that right away.

You know, as you said, I have a successful public affairs company.

My wife and I, we have another construction company that we own.

But I've also had the benefit of being able to not only do the business, but do the governing in the legislature.

You know, I'm the only living Republican senate majority leader who's held two terms back to back as leader.

I've negotiated budgets, I've done the things that all of us are talking about.

I've actually accomplished them.

And I think, in this election, we have to have somebody who knows how to do the job right away, and I think that's what makes me different from the rest of the field.

- Yeah, to your point, I think I saw you mentioned somewhere, maybe in another forum somewhere else, that, you know, it's easy to talk about running state government like a business, but you also have the legislature to deal with.

What did you mean by that?

- Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's a common Republican refrain to talk about how the government needs to be more like a business.

I think the government needs to be the government.

You know, in a business, your goal is to amplify shareholder value, right?

To increase earnings for the shareholder.

I don't want the government to have any more money than it absolutely needs to cover basic services.

You also have a board of directors that's rather large: 186 members.

You know, you have to work through them to implement any lasting change.

And you know, for example, when I was in the legislature in 2011 and 2015, we were able to decrease the income tax.

That's the only time it's been done in the past 16 years.

I know what it takes to get that done.

We did that with Democrats, by the way.

We had Republicans and a majority of Democrats vote to lower the income tax.

You go forward into the legislature now, you don't have that going on.

You have majority budgets.

You have increased spending.

All of these things that the other gentlemen on the stage are talking about, I've actually been able to accomplish.

And so I think that's really important for the next Republican nominee.

- This leads you to another thing I think you've said recently, and I forget the exactly where it was, but it was, "I want to underpromise and overdeliver.

And I've thought about that in the context of cutting that income tax, for example, or even making modifications to state welfare programs."

- You know, when you say to somebody that you're gonna eliminate the income tax over four years, well, I don't wanna make that promise because it's very unlikely that that could happen.

So I think that's just an important theory in life is to underpromise and overdeliver.

It's just good public relations, something I do know a little bit about.

But, you know, we are going to make significant progress unlike what's going on right now in the legislature with majority budgets, with Democrats playing procedural games amongst Republicans so that they don't have to have their buy-in.

I've actually done these things with Democrats, and I know I can do that again.

We will work towards reducing to elimination the income tax, but it's going to take time and it's going to take somebody who can build relationships with people on all pieces of the political spectrum.

- One proposal in 2014, and you were in the majority, I think you were the senate majority leader at the time, Governor LePage proposed a pretty significant cut in the income tax and paid for that by raising the sales tax a little bit, but also extending it to items that were currently exempt, goods and services.

Would that be part of your plan, do you think?

Or would it be different?

- I won't go into any kind of detail around how I think we can do it.

I think largely I'd like to tackle that through some additional government spending that's gone on through some expanded Medicaid offerings that's been going on.

There's some other things that I think we can cut before we have to go into looking into what kind of tax structure we have.

But I can tell you an overarching philosophy that I think is very important when it comes to funding the state budget.

I want as many out-of-staters to fund our Maine budget as I possibly can get.

I would rather they pay for the bills and the pleasure of being able to come here during tourist season than Maine people.

Maine people are getting hammered.

You have your income tax, you have your sales tax, you have your property tax.

And what the Democrats have done in Augusta over the past eight years is they've been saying, "Oh, we're gonna lower your property taxes."

And that's been nothing of the case.

They've been forcing down new mandates to the towns that are unfunded and forcing towns to raise their property taxes.

You know, the sales tax hasn't been touched, but the income tax is now being touched after Governor Mills promised that she wouldn't.

So I think, before we start talking about how are we going to replace revenue, let's talk about how we can decrease expenditures, because increasing the budget 70% over eight years, you cannot tell me that there's not waste there.

We know that there is.

- You know, one of the things since I've known you and been covering you is that your faith has always been sort of a North Star of your politics.

How would that influence your approach to policies?

And what would that look like?

- I mean, my faith is a core piece of who I am.

It's something I carry with me every single day.

But when you're running for governor, you're not running for, you know, I'm not Catholic, but Pope, you're not running to be the pastor of a church.

You're running for governor.

But I think the solid foundation of a Christian faith are the things that I think general society is about.

It's love your neighbor as yourself.

It's make sure that you're taking care of those around you.

It's knowing who the Bible is talking to, right?

The Bible isn't talking to the government.

It's talking to you as an individual person.

And I think it's been influential in my life and it's been a big piece of how I make decisions in Augusta.

It's way more about the individual than the government doing it for you.

- From your perspective, and certainly from other people, it's good to know which levers to pull, how the process works, but for some voters, it may carry a negative connotation: lobbyist.

How do you deal with that?

- You know, it is funny because there's other people in the field who have that same title, right?

And they'll run away from it.

I'm not going to.

One of the core tenets of this campaign is that I wanna be completely 100% honest about who I am.

I've always tried to live my life that way.

And in the public eye for the past 16 years, I've always tried to do that.

I'm not gonna run from the fact there's public records that said I represented certain companies and organizations.

You know, we have wonderful clients, which I won't name here, people can look them up, but, you know, they're that grow your food.

They're the people that build your buildings.

And, you know, as far as like carrying those things into the governor's office, I want to be Maine people's person that can go and get things done for them.

And that's what a lobbyist really does at the State House is they're giving voice to people who might not always have a voice.

You know, we also do a lot of pro bono work.

So we represent people for no pay at all, because they deserve to have their voices heard in the legislature as well.

So, you know, it's nothing that I'm gonna run from.

It's an asset.

You know, one of the things I talk about on the campaign trail is how we need somebody who can go to work with President Trump, with the administration.

No matter who is elected in 2026, they're gonna have two years of President Trump.

And I think it's a mistake, for Democrats especially, to stand there and just say they're gonna resist and fight Donald Trump.

We need somebody who can actually go work with him, not be him.

And the background that I have allows me to do that.

I've worked with a lot of people who have the temperament of President Trump.

And so I think, if you want somebody who can effectively represent Maine, you should hire somebody who's been an effective representative for other people.

- Garrett Mason, thanks so much for your time.

- Thank you so much.

- [Narrator] Next is Owen McCarthy with Rachel Ohm of the "Portland Press Herald".

- You are new to Maine politics.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you interested in running for governor.

- My journey actually begins 100 miles north of Bangor in a town called Patten, Maine.

I grew up in the shadow of Mount Katahdin and I had a great path.

You know, my dad was a logger, and my mom worked in the school as a lunch lady.

When I went to the Maine schools that were fourth in the country, you learn a lot about hard work watching your dad go to work at 2:00 AM, come back at 6:00 PM, and you learn a lot about accountability when you're a town like Patten.

And then, I went on to be the first in my family to go to college on the Pulp and Paper scholarship at the University of Maine.

And I actually worked in our heritage paper industry, learned how to solve problems and know a lot about that.

And then, as you said, I became an entrepreneur.

I built a couple of companies, the most recent one, MedRhythms, and we help people improve walking following stroke and Parkinson's disease.

And so to your question, what got me in, you know, I don't think the next generation of Mainers has the same opportunity that I had coming from here.

And I don't think if you're like the people I grew up with, we've designed a state that's affordable for working-class Mainers.

And so that's really what got me to jump in and say like, "Let's take the state in the new direction."

- So you haven't held office before.

What makes you qualified to be governor?

- Yeah, people ask me this question all the time, "Owen, like, you don't have political experience.

Is that qualifications?"

And I say like, "Look, this is an executive role.

Like I have an executive experience, I've built teams, I've set a vision, and in this case, I actually released the 72-page 130-policy plan for the future, which is the direction we wanna head, and that's what executives do.

You build teams and rally people.

And, as the governor, that's the role that we have.

And also, as I talk to Mainers, they actually don't like the experience they've had from government the last 20 years.

And so there's time for a change.

And so I think the experience that I have lays out perfectly to be be governor.

- I do wanna talk about the plan that you released, - Yeah, I'd love that.

- "Maine 2040".

It's 72 pages.

I will confess I haven't read all of it.

- That's okay.

- Can you give me the highlights, the elevator pitch on what your plan is?

- Yeah, so let's start from, so "Maine 2040" is the year that Oliver and Theodore, my five and three-year-old son, will be in the workforce.

And so a design for them is built on three pillars: building opportunity, making Maine affordable, and discipline how we run the government.

At the top, the goal is that we gotta create 50,000 foundational jobs in Maine.

Those are jobs that sell things across borders.

You do that, you bring in new dollars in the state, you can raise incomes.

To do that, I mean, there's a bunch of chapters, but the first few chapters are fix the fundamentals and bet on our strengths.

When I talk about fix the fundamentals, it talks about taxes.

There's a 10% income tax cut and phase it out over eight years.

There's the regulatory cut: for every one new policy proposed, we're gonna cut two.

And then, there is an audit of everything to make sure that we're disciplined about spending.

And then, on the shrinks, while we're doing that, where I think we can grow the economy is, you know, places like maritime innovation.

We've been building boats since the British liked our pine trees.

That's a big growth area in the state of Maine.

This is a place where I think we can create 5 to 10,000 of those foundational jobs.

We need to have a focus area there as a whole series of steps.

Same in forest products, same in life science, building around the activity of the Roux Institute.

We can build some real momentum there, market it to the world, grow the economy in Maine all the while.

- Yeah, going back to the income tax.

I know that is something a lot of candidates have been talking about, you know, trying to lower or eliminate taxes.

How do you make up that revenue?

Like if we're eliminating the income tax.

Are we cutting services?

- No, it's a great question.

I mean, and this is why I say over eight years, like you can't do it immediately, 'cause you needed multiple things to come true for that to happen.

We studied New Hampshire for how they got to where they're at, which has no income tax, but they have a higher share of their revenue from corporate tax, even though their corporate tax rate is less than ours.

And so that was one piece of information.

Two is now is the time to do it because remote workers, they can work anywhere.

Eight states have no income tax.

12 states will soon have no income tax.

So it's an arms race.

So how do we get there?

One is we gotta grow the economy.

We create 50,000 foundational jobs as they laid out, it would double the growth rate.

And the corporate tax raw dollars would go up, not the rate would go up.

That would make up some of the gap.

Two is we're gonna be efficient about how we operate the government.

And if you flatline growth, like right now, spending has gone up 65% over the last seven years or more now.

If you flatline that, you can allow a lot of other streams of revenue to catch up and make up some of the income tax.

And then three, with the audit of everything, when we find fraud, duplication, and waste, instead of reinvesting it, we're gonna send it back to the people as part of that income tax cut.

That mix of things over time, I know it's 42% of the budget right now, income tax, we'll eat away at that.

And in eight years, you can get to the point where you can remove it.

- Correct me if I'm wrong, I think you're the youngest candidate running.

- That's right, yeah.

- And I'm curious how that informs some of your policies or, you know, do you see that more as a benefit or a detriment?

- Yeah, so a few things.

One is I do think it's time in this country we have next generation of leadership.

So I think that's a benefit.

Two is, you know, there's a lot of change happening out in the world right now.

You know, I talked about in the beginning that I worked in our heritage industries, but in with my company, I've worked in technology and AI, and I've always said I can bridge sawmills to software.

And we're in the fourth industrial revolution, and I think my background, living in it and being in it, will help Maine leap forward where we didn't do so well in the third industrial revolution.

And then, finally, I'm in the prime of my career.

I have a lot of energy.

I work 16-18 hour days, and I can do that really repeatably, and so I think it's a real strength.

- I wanna talk about the president a little bit.

What are your thoughts on how your administration would work with President Trump?

Do you see, you know, being lockstep on everything?

Are there any particular areas of agreement or disagreement that you foresee?

- Yeah, so I would work with the president, and would want to do that, and would support working with him.

I think there could be a lot of good for Maine, like I talk about building boats, the largest national security concern of the United States is boat building capacity, and we can meet the call of the U.S.

to do that.

I am the governor of Maine, though, in this instance.

And if it's not good for Maine, if decisions aren't good for Maine, say tariffs on energy from Canada, right, which my grandma's on fixed income, if that were to hit, like that would be really detrimental 'cause Northern Maine gets all of their energy from there.

You know, I wouldn't make it a spectacle.

I wouldn't go attack him, you know, publicly.

I would fly down to D.C., and I'd meet with him, and I'd talk to him.

And, you know, there's actually some good examples of that out there, even not Republicans, right?

You look at Gretchen Whitmer, you look at Mamdani, they can't be further apart on policy areas.

They've both gone down, they met with the president, and they've done what's good for the people of their cities and their states.

And I think that, you know, in my administration, that's how I've worked with the president.

And I would do that with any president, like no matter if it's Trump, and in two years, three years, if there's another president, you'd have to do the exact same thing.

- Yeah, and I guess on a similar note, I mean, it is likely that the legislature could continue to be controlled by Democrats.

How do you see yourself working with maybe a Maine House and Maine Senate that are Democrat controlled?

- You know, as an entrepreneur, you're always trying to like accomplish goals that are outside of your control, right?

Like we built a company that helps people like walk better using music in their homes with a technology that we built from scratch in a reimbursement environment that we had to change and all these things.

And so, within that, you have to be creative, you have to build relationships, and you have to work with people.

And I actually think, you know, ideally we have all three, right?

The House, the Senate, and the governorship.

"Maine 2040" would be much easier to accomplish, right?

If not someone like me that comes from a background that had to work with people, you know, no matter their label, no matter who they are, to accomplish goals with things outside their control, I think would be a strength in the governor's race.

And there's been examples across the country, where, you know, you look at Larry Hogan, you look at Charlie Baker, you look at Chris Sununu.

These are republican governors that have mixed chambers when they ran, and they were the most liked governors of America that solved problems and made things happen.

And so I think, yeah, would it make it harder to accomplish the policy goals?

For sure, but, you know, someone like me, that's a challenge I'm willing to take on.

- Owen, thanks so much for joining us.

- Thanks for having me, Rachel.

- [Narrator] Now, here's Ben Midgley with "Maine Public"'s Kevin Miller.

- So you're new to politics, but not new to Maine.

You grew up in Southern Maine and currently live in Kennebunkport.

You got your start, as I understand it, in fitness pretty much at the ground floor by actually cleaning fitness equipment at a gym in order to get a membership.

Is that right?

- Yep.

- And fast-forward a few decades, you were president of Planet Fitness and then CEO of Crunch Fitness.

How do you go from running two national, large fitness organizations to wanting to run for governor?

- I think the most driving aspect of that is I grew up in the state, right?

And my character was built in Maine.

My wife's from Lyman, Maine, and our kids all grew up here, they all went to school here and really made them who they are.

It was a wonderful place to grow up.

And as you grow up and you go through different phases in your life, you see the impact that decisions made at the government level can affect your life and the lives of others.

And over the last seven years or so, I've felt that it's become much more challenging for folks to live the life that they want to in Maine, and that was really the most motivating factor.

And being at a point in my life where my kids are old enough, first of all, to understand what's going on.

I probably wouldn't have done this if my kids were too much younger.

Our youngest is 16.

And, you know, having the time, I'm retired now, so this is 100% percent of my focus.

And having some personal resources that we can also use to help with the process, it felt like this is the right time, for us personally and for the state, to try to make a difference.

And if you don't try to make a difference, then you really can't complain.

- So you're one of several Republican candidates for governor who is running on your business background.

So I guess my question would be what's different about your experience that would make businessman to governor make that transition better?

- Sure, well, I mean, each business person has a different background.

My business was built from scratch, right?

We started with no clubs, took a brand that was in bankruptcy, pre my joining the brand, and then I was brought in to fix that brand.

And we started with no franchisees, no vendors, anything, and over 15 years, built it to the number one fitness franchise in the country.

We had 500 locations in 46 states, six countries, had three million members, did over a billion dollars in revenue, and created 15,000 jobs nationwide.

So I've got experience working in 46 different states.

So it's easy to see the difference with states that are very supportive of business versus states that are not supportive of business.

Obviously, those states have more businesses in them and they do better.

States that don't support business, it's just harder to hit the ground running.

And having international experience that exposes you to a lot of different things.

And, you know, building something from scratch also gives you a different view than perhaps if you took over another business or something, you know, from that perspective.

And it's a very diverse background.

I was also, like I said, the president of Planet Fitness for a while there.

So it's given me the experience to understand not just the business aspect of it, but job creation, strategic management, strong financial management skills, culture building, people management, all the things that an executive position like the governor's office requires.

- In the past, some business leaders who've gone on to become governor, like former Governor Paul LePage, they've found that transition or the differences between the business world and the government world frustrating.

You know, you're technically the chief executive of the state, but you can't just go in and wholesale restructure agencies.

You can't fire everybody because you have to deal with the state legislature, with unions, with constituent groups.

How would you juggle that?

- Well, I think that's part of the process, right?

I mean, I don't think the goal should be to go in and control everything, right?

I mean, part of doing things right is making sure you have all the best ideas from all the best people, right?

So if you go in as a new governor, or if you're a CEO for that manner, you know, drawing an analogy there, your job is not to have answers for everything.

Your job is to put the smartest people in the jobs that align with their skillset.

So you want the best people doing the jobs that you don't know everything about.

So you put someone who's in charge of DAFS, or public safety, or conservation, or what have you, and then you get those folks all working in tandem to bring the best solutions to the table.

As well, you need to work with a legislature, right?

You may have all three bodies of government, you may have some, but in any case, you do that through a collaborative approach, get people to the point that you have the best solutions for the most amount people, and then you get the inertia there to get those passed and bring positive change for the people in the state.

But it's primarily culture building.

You know, as I've grown up in business, culture has always proven to be the most important single factor in terms of getting things done.

You don't always get everything that you want to get done, but if you do things right, and you respect other people's opinions, and you listen to everybody, over time, people understand your intentions are where they should be.

And then, whether you have a divided government or it's all one party, let's say we've got some Democrats owning a couple of the bodies of government, if we get wins, we're getting wins for everyone who lives in their areas too, right?

So over time, everyone is doing better, and that's ideally what brings people together going forward.

- I know one of the big things that you've talked about in your campaign is strengthening Maine's economy.

Can you give a few, just in a minute or two, a few specific examples of how you could go about strengthening the economy as governor?

- Sure, one of the challenges you have in the state right now is if you've looked at the most recent economic forecast for jobs, there's zero forecasted job growth right now through the Mills administration through 2029.

Zero, it's a pretty bad number going all the way through 2029.

Without having jobs and a robust economy in the state, it's gonna be very hard to, you know, turn any of these cost issues around, right?

Because without the jobs, you don't have the opportunity for folks to support themselves.

The state doesn't make taxes from that standpoint.

And, you know, people can't be gainfully employed.

We already have roughly 30% of the state receiving some sort of welfare support.

So we're in a tricky situation.

Without the jobs, you can't do any positive changes.

So you've got a lot of things keeping businesses out of the state right now.

One, for example, is electricity costs.

It's incredibly expensive.

You just had a mill closing.

That can be fixed.

There's some policy decisions around that you can fix.

You've got a lot of folks, right now, that are receiving significant benefits in the state of Maine.

The average welfare recipient's getting $40,000 worth of benefits.

Maine's about fifth in the country from that standpoint.

The average welfare recipient gets about 25,000 of benefits.

And that's nothing against, you know, folks that are on the system.

I've been on the system, right?

But what it is, it creates a barrier for those folks to go in and take a job that may help them do better.

Because what we have in Maine is a welfare system that essentially traps you in that situation.

If you make too much money, you lose all your benefits.

It's called the cliff.

Have you heard of that?

- Yep, sure.

- So if you can't get out of that situation, you're essentially stuck there.

So we've gotta create upward mobility for folks.

So you create a bridge for folks to do better, paying in the system a little bit, and then you help them off the system, not by taking away their benefits or just cutting a budget line, but allowing them to do better until they don't need that, right?

Then you strengthen the workforce, you lower the costs of electricity for the businesses.

Our tax burden is too high for businesses, and this millionaire's tax that we just passed is also gonna hit a lot of pass-through businesses.

And you've got 135,925 regulations on the books.

It's very challenging for businesses to navigate that environment.

And you need to have a little bit better customer service for businesses too.

A lot of folks are complaining that they're calling into the state to get help with business licenses or what have you, and they're not picking up the phone after 12 o'clock in the afternoon.

So there's all sorts of things you can do on a broad level and a small level to incentivize businesses to get going in Maine.

- You've pledged to crack down on sanctuary city policies and reduce welfare benefits to non-citizens.

But, as I'm sure you know, there are leaders within the business community, including the Maine State Chamber of Commerce, that say that immigrants are really important for filling vacant positions and are important to Maine's economy.

Are they wrong in that respect?

- Well, I think it would be great if they had the opportunity to work and support themselves.

The challenge is, when you have one of the lowest income states in the country with one of the highest tax burdens, right?

And you have these, I'd say dismal job forecast projections, you have a state that really can't afford to be paying for all those benefits, right?

That's why we also need to shrink the MaineCare system, you know, the overall welfare requirements in the state of Maine to give people an opportunity to do better for themselves.

So if you're in the country illegally, and that's something you have to work through, you know, on your own through the process, but in terms of Maine workers paying for every aspect of those folks' lives, I don't think that's fair to Mainers.

If they can support themselves, I think that's terrific.

If you're gonna do a draw down on benefits, it would have to be a very well-forecasted draw down so people can plan and, you know, get into another situation or get into gainful employment.

But, in either case, you've got to take that burden off of folks in the state of Maine.

We're one of only seven states in the country that pays that, and we just don't have the tax base to be able to afford that.

- Ben Midgley, thank you for coming in and speak with us.

- Thank you for having me, Kevin.

- [Narrator] And now, Robert Wessels with "Maine Public"'s Steve Mistler.

- We wanna talk a little bit about your background and why you got into the race for governor.

You were once selected to the South Paris Select board.

You no longer serve in that role, but now you're running for governor.

I think you were one of the first candidates to get in the race, I think, in 2024.

Your background is in business and retail management.

How are those skills transfer to running the largest bureaucracy of the state?

- Yeah, how does that come about, right?

Well, thank you, again, first of all, for having me.

I love to have this conversation.

And yes, I was a selectman for four years in the town of Paris, and one of those, I was the chair.

And so that's the limit of my being, you know, I'm not a politician.

And at the same time, it does give a good base for understanding how local elections work, and as you said, the bureaucracy of Maine and the impact that a governor and Augusta can have on a local town.

And so I do think that that really does play into how well I would do as governor bringing that history with me.

How does somebody go from retail management to governor?

The reality is that we need a governor that is in touch with reality of everyday Mainers.

And really, to your point, I did launch my campaign back in 2023, July of 2023 officially.

And I did it so early because I don't have name recognition.

And I had it in the negative column of, you know, the fact I don't have the political experience and, you know, I'm just retail management.

And very quickly, in talking to hundreds and hundreds of Mainers early on, everybody's like, "Oh, yeah.

No, that's a good thing."

And so the reality is I shifted that over to the positive column because, when my electricity bill goes up, I feel it, right?

When my property taxes go up, I have to recalculate my budget.

I am in touch with what is going on with everyday Mainers across the state.

And, at the same time, my MBA and 20 plus years of retail management have certainly prepared me for dealing with people.

You do that every day in retail.

And I love the business aspect of it.

And the reality is you use bureaucracy, it's 100% true, but, at the same time, it's a business.

And before everybody, you know, sends in mail and corrects me, the reality is businesses go for profit.

And for me, the profit of the state would be money back in taxpayers' money and pockets.

And so, again, if I'm successful in running the state the way it needs to be run, our budgets will go down, taxes will go down, and businesses and families in Maine will be able to thrive.

- But was there anything in particular that inspired you to run?

- Ultimately, I was looking at the state and I was just not happy, I was fed up, quite honestly, with the direction that we're going as a state, in particular with Janet Mills and the way she was running the state.

And then, our school district, MSAD 17 in Oxford Hills, was trying to pass a policy that would allow the school to transition kids without telling the parents as far as transgender and stuff like that.

And again, as a parent, I was appalled by that.

And I believe parents need to have that role and need to know what's going on in their kids' lives.

And so I, my wife, and hundreds of other parents stood up and spoke up and said, "Absolutely not.

We can't do this."

To the school board's credit, they did not pass the policy.

And I looked at my wife at that point and said, "But the problem is it's coming from Augusta, and, you know, the Department of Education and governor, and we need to fix that."

And I'm one of those people who, when I see a problem, and I see that I have the skills necessary to do it, I can't just sit idly by and go, "Oh, I hope somebody does that."

I was also smart enough to say, "I don't have name recognition.

I don't have money."

But I did have time.

And so, you know, a few months later, I came to my wife and I said, "So I'm thinking about running for governor."

And I thought that was the end of the campaign, but she looks at me and she goes, "Okay."

And I'm like, "All right.

We just crossed the biggest hurdle."

- Are your kids in school?

Are they in public school?

- So my kids, two have graduated.

My kids are 17, 19, and 21.

And no, we've homeschooled all three of them.

And if you do the math, that was quite a while ago.

That was not a political decision.

My wife is a certified teacher and just passionate about education and wanted to homeschool them.

So I said, "All right, let's do it."

- How does that experience, homeschooling your children, how does that influence your view of education policy?

And how would it affect your implementation of policies as an elected governor?

I mean, obviously, we have a charter school system in this state alongside a public school system.

Certainly, homeschooling is allowed, obviously.

But what policies would you push given your own experience with homeschooling and, you know, maybe broader critiques of the educational system in the state?

- Yeah, and so that's a big part of my platform.

You're 100% correct, because the reality is I get to see firsthand the successes of, you know, what education can look like and the amazing results that I have seen with all three of my children, you know.

And then, when I look at our results in the public school, the reality is that, as of the 2024 report, 74% of our fourth graders are not proficient at reading at the level that they need to be at.

And math isn't much better.

67% of our fourth graders are not proficient at math.

And so I'm looking from a business perspective, somebody who's hired these people that are graduating, and some of them can't read.

And again, how are you to be successful in life if you can't read and you can't do math?

I am a big fan of school choice.

However, I will say not your traditional voucher system, because I do not like the strings that are attached to government money.

As a homeschooler, I wouldn't take it, because I don't need the government saying, "Hey, you can't teach this, or you have to teach it this way."

But if we do a tax credit system, the government is not giving you money.

You're just not giving the government your money.

And that removes those strings and allows people to be able to choose.

If our purpose with education is to get our young people ready for life after school, which I think we can all agree on, then why should it matter whether they do that successfully through a public school, charter school, home school, private school.

Like it shouldn't.

- You mentioned taxes and spending.

I know that's a huge thing that Republican candidates in particular are talking about.

A lot of vows to cut the state budget and also, at the same time, cut taxes.

There's some tension there between those two objectives.

How do you do it?

- I don't see the tension between cutting the budget and cutting taxes, because the reality is, if you cut the budget, you then can cut taxes if you want to, right?

And so, yes, we need to cut the budget.

If our taxes, income taxes, property taxes, are significantly higher than other states, people are mobile these days.

Businesses will choose not to come and base their business in the state of Maine.

Families will choose to leave or not come to Maine because their dollar stretches further elsewhere.

- One last question.

I think we're running out of time, but I know that affordability is a huge issue for both Democrats running for the governor and also Republicans.

Divergent views in how to address that.

What's yours?

- So mine is small government.

We need to get the government out of things.

We have all kinds of ridiculous regulations, about 135,000 regulations.

Not all of them bad, but the reality is those regulations add cost to doing business.

They add cost to families.

They add to our taxes.

They add to everyday life for everyday Mainers.

And so we need to reduce that, cut the red tape, and really encourage businesses to grow and to come to Maine so those businesses can be taxed and not you and I. And we can thrive again.

- Robert Wessels, thanks so much for joining us.

- Thank you for having me.

- [Narrator] This Your Vote 2026 special and other election-related programs can be found at mainepublic.org/yourvote.

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