- [Announcer] In collaboration with the Portland Press Herald Maine Public Presents a Your Vote 2026 Primary Election special with the five Democratic candidates competing in the June 9th gubernatorial primary.

The interviews were prerecorded in our Lewiston Studios and are presented here in alphabetical order, starting with Shenna Bellows.

She spoke with Maine Public's Steve Mistler.

- Shenna Bellows, thanks for joining us.

You've been Maine Secretary of State since 2021.

The first woman elected to that position.

Before that you were the ACLU of Maine for eight years, and you were also in the Maine State Senate, and then also you ran for the US Senate in 2014, challenging Republican Senator Susan Collins.

How has that informed your candidacy for governor?

- So it's so important in this moment that we have leaders who will stand up for people's constitutional rights and for democracy itself.

As executive director of the ACLU of Maine and as an organizer prior to that, working on reproductive freedom, marriage equality, privacy, immigrants rights, that prepared me well to challenge the Trump administration as Secretary of State.

So when the Trump's DOJ came after your voter data and that of every American, I was one of the first secretaries to stand up and say, "No, go jump in the Gulf of Maine."

So I think that trajectory really strengthened my position and leadership nationally in protecting elections and fighting for people.

- How would it inform the policies you would pursue?

I mean, obviously the chief elections official in the state right now, and as you mentioned, this battle with the Trump administration over Mainers' voter data has been something your campaign has focused on quite a bit.

But what about when you become governor, the things you need to do are a lot different and how does that past experience inform the policies you may pursue?

- So before I was ever executive director of the ACLU, I was a kid growing up in Hancock County and a graduate of Ellsworth High School, a Peace Corps volunteer, an AmeriCorps volunteer.

And one interesting thing about that Maine Senate race is, I won a district that voted for me and voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

Now I'd been head of the ACLU, I'd been a leader on marriage equality, I'd co-chaired the same-day voter registration campaign.

I didn't hide who I was, but I was very focused on economic issues because those really bring everybody together.

Small business development, property taxes, trying to get those to be lower, investing in our schools and our kids.

And I got reelected in that district twice, even though the 11 towns that I represented in Central Maine, bridging CD2 and CD1, just like our state, voted for Donald Trump in 2024.

- Yeah, I mean, talk about that a little bit because, you know, just a couple of years ago you made that move to remove the president.

Well, he wasn't the president at the time, remove Donald Trump from the ballot because of his conduct during the January, leading up to the January 6th attack on the US Capitol.

How do you talk to those same Trump voters who may be still angry with you for trying to do that?

- The same way I did when I made my decision.

So for years I've been going on conservative talk radio or truly any media outlet to talk about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I'm really passionate about that.

And of course Republicans in the State House were pretty angry about the Trump decision.

However, it was just a couple months later on presidential primary day I was touring the polls, I was in Bucksport and this Trump voter comes barreling up to me and says, you know, "Are you Sheenna Bellows?"

And of course my name is Shenna, but I didn't correct him.

I was like, "Yeah."

And he said, "I hear you on the radio all the time."

And I was like, "Yeah?"

And he said, and I kid you not, "You and Donald Trump are my favorite politicians."

- What?

Really?

(Shenna laughing) - He did.

And I said, "Oh."

And he said, "I don't always agree with you, but you always say what you mean."

And that's what I found when I represented a Trump district.

It's what I experienced growing up.

Half my family doesn't care about politics, of the half that do, half voted for Trump, half voted for Harris.

It really is about authenticity and connecting with people around shared values.

Currently I'm chairing the America 250 efforts for the state, the main semi quincentennial commission and the folks that show up to that meeting, they're from all walks of life.

And there are these common values and we think the Constitution and Bill of Rights is foundational to that, that we all share.

So there were Trump bellows voters in 2016, and I think there'll be Trump bellows voters in 2026 as well.

- What do you wanna pursue?

Like what's LD1 if you're elected, I know you don't propose the bill, or you could, but you know in that, like what would you want to see in the legislature?

What is the one priority you want to start with?

- I have three.

An economic new deal for Maine.

We have to make Maine the most affordable state in the nation.

Two, we need to invest in education, 'cause Maine is in the bottom quartile.

And that's a problem, we really need to invest in our kids and our teachers.

And three is healthcare, 'cause we're seeing the crumbling of healthcare infrastructure, the closing of birthing centers and hospitals.

We need to make sure that we're shoring that up to invest in Maine's future.

So those are my top three priorities.

That's what I'm hearing as I travel across the state from York to Presque Isle.

people are deeply concerned about those issues.

- On the education front, you know the current governor, governor Mills has put a lot of more money into local education funding, meaning that 55% threshold that prior governors had not been able to meet.

Is that a priority?

Is the solution to education problems, is it more money or is there something else that needs to happen there?

- So I've been a big proponent of that 55%, but I think we need to do more.

And one of my proposals on the economic front is calling for statewide moratorium on increases in property taxes.

Because the way we fund education is different from many other states and it's very regressive and people are really struggling with a double digit property tax increases across the state.

And I would pay for it by dramatically increasing property taxes for out of staters because one in six main homes is a vacation home, and that's contributing to the housing crisis.

But it's also revenue from folks who can afford a second or third home whose residency is out of state can afford to pay a little bit more.

So we need to do more than the 55%.

I think we need to dramatically increase teacher pay.

We also need to increase teacher training.

So I've called for a stipend for experienced teachers to bring student teachers into the classroom of 10,000 per teacher per year paid for by the state.

I think we need some accountability.

We need to really invest in how are we making sure that every child can read, how are we investing in math?

So that I think is really important.

And then school infrastructure.

I think we need a bond to fix our crumbling schools because a lot of kids are going to school in substandard conditions and that's not healthy or safe for their learning.

- I'm glad you brought up the property taxes because I know that that's top of mind for a lot of communities.

And you mentioned the regressivity of those taxes too, which I think is really important.

But you know, again, this particular, the democratic-controlled legislature and this democratic governor have tried to send money back to those communities to help with that, but it doesn't seem to be working.

What else can we do?

And you mentioned this other idea of trying to tax people with second homes here, but is there anything else to help with the property tax burden?

- So I actually think this is a big idea because if you think about the revenues that would come in of one in six of those out-of-staters were paying a larger amount that could be very significant.

And calling for a statewide moratorium with a blue ribbon commission to look at how we're funding schools, counties, and municipalities.

Because I really think that our system is out of whack.

We're seeing layoffs in schools that can't afford to lose teachers.

We're seeing school budgets be rejected by property taxpayers who are concerned about losing their homes and folks on fixed incomes or working families like mine was.

And I think that's a lens that I bring that is unique in this race.

I grew up very poor and my father was a carpenter.

My mom worked first in a light bulb filament factory in Sullivan and then in a greenhouse, we couldn't afford electricity or indoor plumbing until the fifth grade.

That was a great year.

But having those experiences, struggling, working hard, I know what it would mean for a family like mine was to have a double digit increase in your property tax.

And it's not acceptable.

So revenue sharing has been a big piece of the legislature's agenda.

When I was in my first term, I brought a bill to increase revenue sharing.

In my second term, I was successful in that bipartisan coalition to send more money back to the towns.

But I think we have to go bigger and that's where my proposal comes from.

- Let's talk about the healthcare piece a little bit too.

You mentioned that, what does that look like?

I mean, there's a big push, I think, from the federal candidates to do Medicare for all or something like that.

But at the state level, what can the state do?

Are we talking about sort of a revamped Detego Health, which is something that was done a couple of years ago and rolled back and, I think, in the Republican wave election of 2010, what can the state do on that front to help?

- In times of chaos, there are often moments of opportunity, and the baseline for me is that no one should be sick because they're poor or poor because they're sick.

We need universal single payer healthcare for all, or Medicare for all.

And I've talked to a lot of folks across the state.

I've talked to retired hospital executives, current hospital executives.

I've talked to doctors, nurse practitioners, folks on the ground.

My mom at age 49 went back to school through the University of Maine at Augusta System and University of Maine at Orono, became an RN.

I was a home healthcare nurse during the pandemic.

My sister worked in healthcare here in Maine.

And so what I've heard as I've traveled the state is that the system is crumbling before our eyes.

The payer mix isn't working.

Hospitals in particular are losing huge amounts of money.

We're seeing these closures.

And so I think the state needs to rethink how we fund healthcare.

My budget, my very first budget on day one will include direct operating support for the infrastructure that is critical to our communities.

And that means hospitals, community health centers, and birthing centers.

And I also think we need to really invest in the school-based health centers.

This is something that I was really proud of in my first term.

I really advocated for school-based health centers.

I think we need to go big and have a school-based health center in every district in the state.

We need to have a mental health counselor in every school in the state.

So in terms of that universal single payer healthcare, we're doing one with Maine AllCare.

We did one with Maine Primary Care Association as well.

And those organizations have done some deep thinking about how we get from where we are to where we need to be, which is universal healthcare for all.

- Shenna Bellows, thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it.

- Thank you.

It was a pleasure.

- [Announcer] Up next, Troy Jackson who spoke with Maine Public's Kevin Miller.

- Troy Jackson, thank you very much for joining us.

You served as Senate President for four years.

You represented your hometown in Allagash and northernmost Maine for more than 20 years in the House and the Senate.

But you've been working in the woods of Maine as a logger for many decades, and now you're running for governor as democratic candidate.

Which of those backgrounds would you say best prepares you for running for governor?

- Well, I think the loggers definitely been the thing that's prepared me for everything.

I mean, it's got me, you know, where I've understood the challenges of Mainers, you know, the power differentials, the wealth inequality.

I mean, everything really has come from that background.

It shaped how I was as a legislator too.

You know, how the unfairness, why I fought against big pharma, why I fought against big landowners, why I've stood up for workers in the legislature because I felt like, you know, everyday people needed a voice.

And that all came from, you know, my logging background even before I was a logger, watching my dad be a logger.

- And what would you say your experience in Augusta, how has that prepared you or shaped how you're gonna approach the job as governor?

- Well, I think the same thing.

I mean, I don't think that, even though I was in the legislature for 20 years and six as Senate president.

- Sorry about that.

- That's fine.

I think that everyday working class people don't get the recognition that they should have.

And I think that's why I'm running this race is that I feel very strongly that working people need to have a governor that's in their corner, and in my time and certainly I don't believe in my time before, at least from, you know, my parents and my grandparents, you know, they haven't had that.

I want to be a governor that fights for everyday people across the state, and I'm going to be, and that's what my time in the legislature has shown me is that we haven't had that as a governor.

You know, I've had numerous bills that have been vetoed by, actually the three governors I've served with, mostly the last two.

But, you know, that were designed to help everyday working class people.

And that's the one thing I wasn't able to do, was able to sign those bills.

I could pass most any bill I wanted, but I can't sign them.

And that's what this race is about, is being a governor that's gonna sign bills, that's gonna help everyday people.

- You know, I'm talking a lot about a few of those issues.

So electricity prices have increased significantly in recent years.

Some folks, especially Republicans, blame clean energy subsidies.

Others say no, it's more about the price of natural gas.

What would your approach be to trying to lower electricity costs?

- Well, I do think that we could do more on both that, I mean, I think that we probably could have done incentives to people that wanted to do clean energy.

We could have done tax incentives, instead of putting it all on rate payers like the net energy billing did.

But I think going for clean energy is smart because we're like, right now, look at where we are with our fuel prices, our energy, you know, because of what's going on in the Middle East, that is a problem.

And that that's always a problem every time we're at the whim of other countries when you see something like that.

And we've seen that in the past with Russia, whenever, you know, they went to war, natural gas prices would spike.

And so having clean energy that's made here in Maine, I think is a good idea.

And we can do that.

We have a great opportunity with a bill that I sponsored, with the Aroostook transmission line.

We have a lot of clean energy there.

Other states wants that energy.

I think the challenge that we have is do we let the other states actually become a part of that ownership or do we sell that energy to them?

I believe we should be selling that energy to them.

And Maine should be, you know, a big part of the deal.

I mean the dealer instead of the supply, I mean letting those states actually come in and be taking our power.

That's a way that we actually could lower our energy costs here in Maine is by selling that energy to Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut.

And that's how we actually will get on top of these high energy prices.

- So another big issue, obviously, for a lot of folks is the price of healthcare.

This is an issue I know you've worked on for years and years in the legislature.

You sponsored a whole bunch of bills dealing with the price of prescription drugs.

I know you support Medicare for all as well as a public option, I guess on those two things.

I mean, do you think that's a realistic possibility?

And absent that, what could or would you do as governor to try to lower healthcare costs?

- Yeah, well, I mean healthcare, I mean, a lot of people see me as big labor advocate and I've talked about it, being working class person already here today.

But, you know, healthcare was probably one of the biggest reasons why I ran for the legislature.

You know, I didn't have healthcare as a logger.

I saw a lot of people in my time that struggle with that, and now it's even worse.

And I do feel very strongly about this.

I mean, I feel like in this country we should have a Medicare For All system.

And I feel like the state has to take this issue head on, and I will, you know, we pass bills on prescription drugs, it's about 50% of the costs here in Maine.

Those are bills that even though, you know, current governor vetoed these bills, I think we have to take big pharma on.

You're seeing states like Colorado that's passed the very same bills that we had vetoed here three years ago.

Were that far behind already.

And we can do those bills lower the cost of prescription drugs.

And I think it's imperative on us to go after big pharma and take these fights on.

People need to know that the state government is going to be in their corner.

And that's something that I feel strongly about.

But I also think that we have to go after private equity in our hospitals, in our nursing homes and things like that.

You know, healthcare is not, in my mind, a for-profit industry.

It's something that we have to have to make sure our residents, our people have and know is gonna be there.

And right now across Maine, people do not know that, they're struggling to find it, they're struggling to afford it.

And as governor, I'm well gonna be standing up and fighting for them that not only can they afford it, but they're gonna be able to have it in their communities.

- Healthcare costs are certainly a nonpartisan issue, but it seems like a lot of times when these bills get to the legislature, they become more partisan.

How important it would it be for you to have a democratic control legislature or, you know, can you work with Republicans on some of these big healthcare initiatives?

- Well, I don't see this as partisan either, but unfortunately sometimes it does become that way.

But I mean, on these prescription drug bills, I mean, we were able to pass these bi-partisanly and I would hope that we could continue that, because obviously it doesn't matter if you're a Republican or Democrat, you need prescription drugs, you need healthcare.

And I would hope to continue to get support from both sides of the aisle on this.

And I will certainly be talking to both Republicans and Democrats about why this is important for their constituents across Maine.

I mean, in Aroostook County, I mean, you know, it's getting to be that, you know, there's as many Republicans as Democrats in my old district and they were still voting for me because they knew I was fighting for healthcare.

So I'm not gonna look at that as a partisan issue.

I'm gonna look at that as an issue that Mainers need regardless of part of the affiliation.

- It seems like there's been a shift, especially in Aroostook County, but throughout rural Maine, areas that used to be traditionally Democrat have now shifted Republican.

Certainly you're seeing that in Aroostook County.

What do you think the Democratic Party can and should be doing to really go after these rural areas of Maine to rebuild your support there?

- I think regardless of the party, I think that people in Maine and probably across the United States want elected officials to be talking about economic issues.

I mean, obviously you hear everybody talking about affordability now, but in my races, I mean, economics has been the issue all along.

I mean, that's how I got started fighting for jobs in the logging industry.

But it's been healthcare, prescription drugs, I mean, nursing homes.

We've lost 40% of our nursing homes in Maine.

And, you know, people are having a hard time to know, where they're gonna take their mom or dad whenever they get to that position, or, you know, even for elders, like when it comes to that time that they can't take care of their home, like where are they gonna get their healthcare?

And these issues have become... And property tax reform, I mean, people are having a hard time paying their property taxes.

All these issues have become a major problem for people across the state more than ever.

And, you know, certainly for Democrats, I mean, we have to give back to economic issues, you know, talking about these issues, fighting for these issues, and regardless of the priority, I think that is what people are gonna flock to.

If it's Democrats that wanna talk about it or Republicans, that's where voters are gonna go.

And I know in my races, that's what have made people wanna vote for me is that's what I've always fought for.

- Troy Jackson, thank you for coming and talking to us.

- Yeah, I appreciate it.

Thanks, Kevin.

- [Announcer] Next is Angus King III with Rachel Ohm of the Portland Press Herald.

- Angus King is a renewable energy entrepreneur and businessman from Portland.

Tell us a little bit more about yourself and why you're running for governor.

- Yeah, I think if my name was Bob Smith, people would know me as a guy who worked for the President of the United States early in my life, who then went on to run a number of businesses, was a president of those businesses, ran a renewable energy company, ran a affordable housing company.

I built thousands of units of affordable housing across the country.

And then I spent time building solar and wind projects across the country and around the world.

And then I started a renewables company here in Maine that built a renewable energy project using cow manure and turning that into clean energy, lowering emissions, and not adding costs for people here in Maine.

So that's been my history.

And in that time, I thought a couple of things.

Number one, there was a big chasm between policy and practice where there just seemed to be a gap.

And I thought there was an opportunity to be a person who could help drive the economy forward, help understand how it really works in the real world.

But then also there's this chasm between politics and people.

And as someone who spent their whole career building things and creating teams and getting things done, I thought it was a moment where we needed somebody who could lead the state in a direction that was more bipartisan, that was more how do we focus on the real central issues to Maine people's lives and get those things done.

- So we, I should mention that your father is Senator Angus King.

- [Angus] My name's not Bob Smith.

That's - Right.

Your name is not Bob Smith.

How have people been responding to, you know, your family connections on the campaign trail?

Do people confuse you with your dad?

How is that working out for you?

- Yeah, the mustache is usually the easy differentiator.

So I don't think people are confused, but people are definitely interested in where we overlap and where we don't.

And I think there's, people sort of wonder what's it like being his kid?

And for me it's really about what have you learned from this person?

And I feel incredibly lucky to have grown up literally at the side of what I think, I'm biased, but one of Maine's great public servants and one of our nation's great public servants.

And so learning from him about the importance of integrity, of your word, of working across the aisle, of being able to listen to solutions from all sides, and then really knowing how to get things done has been, I think, a great experience and one that I wouldn't trade for the world.

- You haven't held office before.

Is that something that you see as a shortcoming at all?

What makes you qualified to take on that different role, like outside of the business world?

- Yeah, yeah, I think leadership comes from all kinds of different places.

And I think of the governor's job as essentially an executive role, right?

It is not a legislative role, it's a leadership role.

And a lot of my career has been in an executive role, and I've also spent a lot of my life in, for example, working for the president in watching other executives in government roles get the job done.

And President Clinton used to say that being a governor is the doing his job in the country.

And so I think of it as a job where you've gotta have someone who knows how to get things done.

And to me, the way you get things done is bringing people together, finding common ground, listening, and then having a course of action and then deploying the right people to get the job done, and then being willing to be accountable for the dollars and the results.

So that to me, is a big part of the job and a big part of my own history.

I also think there's an important role for the governor to be the Convener-in-Chief.

Maine is a small state, which means you really have an opportunity to bring together the thought leaders who really can help you make big decisions and make big change.

And we're in a place in Maine where we really need to make some big change.

And these problems are not partisan problems: housing, heat, healthcare, and they are bigger than any particular one party or one specific solution.

And I think, again, my background is pretty uniquely designed for, or happens to be the right one in this moment, in a moment where we've got a lot of partisan divide, we've got a lot of system failure.

Having somebody who has seen and solved problems at a system level, has a lot of expertise in housing and energy, I think is exactly the right model for this moment.

- Can you talk a little bit about what your energy plans are, how you plan to reduce energy costs for people?

- So I think of a couple of things.

The first is our permitting and interconnection processes are byzantine and take a long time and add a lot of cost.

Other countries have solved these problems, so they're generating solar energy, for example, at three times lower cost than what we're doing here.

And I think there's a lot of opportunity for Maine to help the people who are generating electricity to do it more cheaply.

The second is, what do we do with our utilities?

Historically, utilities are incentivized to build things that they then get paid for, and obviously that incentive makes them build more things.

You can't blame them for it, but I think we've gotta change those incentives, so that they are more motivated to save costs and they're having success in other states, again, helping them to think about better technologies, better sensors, better utilization of the grid that we have before we start building a grid that's bigger and more expensive.

So I think there's a lot of opportunity there.

And then the last piece is making sure we get good deals for Maine.

We have not always had energy programs here in Maine that have been good for rate payers.

And I think there's an opportunity, for example, we've got a lot of potential for wind up in Northern Maine and more solar, but we've gotta make sure, and again, those are going to be low carbon, they can be affordable and they can be soon, but we've gotta make sure that they're structured in a way that are good for main rate payers.

- Housing is another big topic of concern for a lot of people.

Where are your thoughts there on how to make housing more accessible, more affordable?

- I think we've got to be much more ambitious about what we do to build housing.

We have made it much too hard in our state to build things in general.

I built my own house with a lot of help.

We built a house in Portland and it was a very time-consuming, long, expensive process.

And I've built thousands of other units of affordable housing that were actually affordable for people across a number of different states.

It can be very hard, but I think Maine has made it a little bit harder than other states.

We start with some very complicated zoning and building codes.

We also have, I think, a not particularly well coordinated series of agencies at the state level.

And to me, you've gotta start with an ambitious goal and then you've gotta move to who's gonna be accountable for trying to get to this goal.

And then I think people start rowing in the right direction and making a difference and helping the towns that want to build housing.

Right now there are some towns that don't want to build housing.

I don't necessarily wanna start by trying to push that rope uphill, but the towns that do want to do it, let's help 'em.

Let's help them with improving their zoning.

Let's help 'em with improving building codes.

Let's help them with infrastructure support so they can build their sewer and water programs, so that they can actually support more housing.

So I think there are a lot of things the state can do.

And then there are a lot of things we can do to help the towns and ultimately help.

We've got great people in the state who want to build things.

I suppose the last piece is we've gotta do more and better training.

We are short on all of the trades and I think there's a real opportunity to help do workforce development, so that we've got more people who can actually do the work.

- This is a crowded primary race.

There are five Democrats running.

What sets you apart?

What makes you different from the other Democrats that are running?

- Yeah.

This has been a great primary and the people I'm running against are really good people.

And we should feel lucky in Maine that we have such good people running.

But there is a very, I think, meaningful difference between us.

Essentially the people who are also running, have spent their entire careers in and around state government.

And I would not want to take away anything from that service.

There's an appropriate time to celebrate that.

But I also think there is a meaningful difference between the perspective, the ability to see across systems, the ability to understand what it's like to sign the front of a paycheck as well as the back.

And I think there's a difference in philosophy and how you go about solving problems that comes from exposure to both government at the highest levels, but also running businesses, working out in the real world, creating jobs, creating energy, creating housing.

I think that perspective, that experience, that breadth of view is something that, again, for the challenges that we have now, if things were working perfectly and everybody was happy, I might have a different view.

But these challenges feel very fundamental to us and it feels like we've got to have a leader who can look across the entire system, bring big groups of people together and get things done.

And that's the experience I have.

- Angus, thanks so much for joining us.

- Rachel, it's a pleasure.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

Thanks for having me.

- [Announcer] Next is Hannah Pingree with Maine Public's Steve Mistler.

- Hannah Pingree, thanks for joining us.

Really appreciate it.

- Great to be here.

- Yeah, you served four terms in the main house and became the house speaker in 2008.

You were the second woman elected to that position.

After that you landed in the Mills administration and headed up her office of Policy Innovation and the Future and were basically overseeing her economic policy and her agenda on housing and climate as well.

And now you're making the case in this democratic primary that experience matters.

Tell me why.

- Well, obviously in government and trying to solve the challenges that Maine people face right now, knowing how to get things done in government is important.

I'm also a mom.

I've also chaired my local school board.

I live in a very small town.

I grew up in Maine.

I think all those experiences make me love Maine, make me really motivated to serve the state.

And I've been involved in public service since I was 25.

That was when I first decided to run for the Maine legislature.

And I love the state and wanna make a difference.

So all of those things have motivated me to run.

Being house speaker, I saw I could bring people together, I could work with Republicans, Democrats, Independents to get things done.

You know, we passed budgets, we also led the country passing gay marriage, we fought the chemical industry.

So I've gotten things done in government.

I've learned how to bring people together and I think this is a really important time for Maine and that's what motivates me to stay involved.

- I wanted to ask a little bit about your time in the Mills administration and, you know, as the position that you held that was largely overseeing a big portion of the governor's agenda, right?

And like what she prioritized in her campaigns and certainly, you know, from the (indistinct) pulpit as well.

How do you think your agenda, if you were elected governor, would be different?

What are the distinctions to be made between what Governor Mills prioritize in what you would?

- Governor Mills gave me an amazing job.

Paula Page had gotten rid of the state planning office.

The governor wanted to bring back a new forward-looking office, so the Office of Policy Innovation and the Future.

And our job was to bring people together and solve some of the most crucial long-term challenges.

I got to work on climate, on housing, on opioids, children's issues.

Most recently we started an Office of New Americans.

And so we made plans, we brought people together, but we actually got things done.

I serve with the Governor Mills in the legislature.

We serve together for six years.

And she's given me tremendous opportunities.

But we don't always agree on everything.

I'd say there's areas like tribal sovereignty where I differ from where Governor Mills is.

I've learned a lot about issues like housing.

I'm proud of what we've done, but I know we need to make much more progress.

If we can't make housing affordable for young people trying to move to Maine, for young people trying to stay in Maine, for seniors, everything else in our economy won't work.

So I've learned a lot from Governor Mills.

We don't agree on everything, but I've also learned those issues we've gotta take a bigger swing at.

- Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the tribal sovereignty issue.

I'm just curious, and maybe this wasn't really your role there, but did you ever push your point of view on, you know, like advocate for that point of view to the governor herself?

- You know, when you work for a governor, you have all kinds of opportunities to tell the governor your opinion, to give her advice.

But the governor makes, you know, she makes the decisions.

And again, I am so proud of the work we did on issues like climate and housing.

On tribal sovereignty, that was not in my portfolio.

I really didn't talk to her about those issues.

But I had the opportunity through the main climate council to actually work with Maulian Bryant, who was the tribal representative.

We actually set a course for a whole new way, in which Maine tribes could work together with state government on climate issues, with sort of a more government-to-government interactions.

So I had an opportunity to work on issues in the way I thought was appropriate to get lots of people involved, and that's how I would govern as governor as well.

- Yeah, I think most people already know this, but you're the daughter of Shelly Pingree.

I guess, how has that experience shaped your politics and how do you maybe differ from the politics that your mom advocates for?

- Sure.

I mean, obviously, she's my mom, I love her.

I grew up in a very small town and when I was growing up, you know, my mom and dad were both super involved.

They both were EMTs.

They both served on the school board.

My mom ran for the state senate when I was 14.

So I literally got to see my mom decide to do something big, you know, for beyond our community.

I knocked on doors for her and got to see her get elected senate majority leader.

So I'm really proud of her.

I'm proud of what she's fighting for down in Congress.

But obviously we both carved our own paths.

I was elected Speaker of the House the year she was elected to Congress.

So we've done our own thing.

And I think, you know, she's proud of me as well.

We're not exactly the same.

I joke, I'm the oldest child of my mom and she's the youngest.

So we have different personalities.

You know, she focuses on issues in Congress, which are not the same as the ones I have focused on.

So, you know, we're not the same.

Again, we have a family history of public service and you know, there are a lot of men in politics who follow their dads.

And I don't think there are enough women in politics.

So, you know, again, I think it's exciting to see what she's doing, but this will be all about me and the work, what I bring to this job.

- There was a time when I think a lot of folks wanted your mom to run for governor, right?

And you're doing that now.

That's interesting.

Let's talk about affordability, which, of course, is this big buzzword for a lot of candidates this year.

A lot of plans being rolled out.

You have a pretty comprehensive one.

I wanna talk about, start with one aspect of that plan, which is property taxes.

You know, you call for enhancing some of the relief programs for taxpayers, but you also have this element of your plan that taxes the second home of non-Maine residents.

How does that work?

And just talk me through that proposal.

- Sure.

Well, I mean, I think, 'cause I travel around Maine, people are really hurting and a lot of prices have gone up.

This president is not making it better.

But people's ability to find housing they can afford, but also stay in their homes is a critical challenge.

And property taxes, we've seen huge increases.

Part of that is driven by the home prices.

You know, we've seen huge increases in home values.

So I believe people need relief and they need relief through some of the programs that we have.

But how do we pay for them?

What does Maine have?

We don't have enough wealthy people.

We have a lot of people who come here in the summertime.

Wealthy people who own second homes and also tourists.

So the idea in my plan is that we increase taxes on second homes owned by non-Maine residents.

We know other states do this.

I think South Carolina and Florida both do it.

It would require likely a change in our constitution to actually make it happen.

So the governor would have to bring together some level of bipartisan agreement.

But I think the idea of delivering relief to Maine people and exporting that burden to those folks who come here in the summertime, who can afford it, I think that will make sense.

- Well, it's interesting 'cause you mentioned this constitutional hurdle on making this change, but I've heard some Republican candidates actually talk about doing something very similar, so perhaps there is a bipartisan path there.

- I mean, I would just say I've worked with Republicans on a lot of issues over the years and there's some big disagreements, you know, but I worked with Josh tardy when I was speaker and he was majority leader.

I've worked with Billy Bob Faulkingham on working waterfront issues.

I think tthe core issues of can people afford housing?

Can they afford their property taxes?

Can we afford our healthcare system?

I think there's a lot of agreement and the next governor needs to actually figure out how do we bring people together to get those things done.

- Another element of this plan, I think, is designed to sort of help municipalities, 'cause of course property taxes is a huge piece of the revenue picture for localities.

And it's, I think it's a local option sales tax.

Tell me if I'm wrong, I think you are talking about other sources of revenue for municipalities.

Is that what you're proposing?

- Yeah, I'm open to a local option sales tax.

I think a lot of municipalities are lobbying for it and it has not passed through the main legislature.

I think that we need a sort of more broad look on how does state government and municipalities and regional governments better deliver services and how do we ensure that property taxes are affordable for Maine people.

But we also have quality services and quality schools and that balance, we need to figure out how to reach it.

I mean, rural areas are really hurting as well.

And I will say local option sales tax, I think is only possible if you can ensure that rural communities that won't see that benefit see some benefit.

So I would say I'm open to it.

I have heard from a lot of communities about it on the campaign trail.

And I think ways in which we can provide relief to property taxpayers, I think that is essential.

- Can you just talk me through your healthcare plan a little bit too?

What are you proposing there?

It sounds like you want bulk purchasing of drugs, perhaps that's one piece of it.

And then I think the other part is a way for people to access the health exchange.

Is that the other?

- I would say, I mean we put out a pretty comprehensive healthcare plan.

You can check out all the details at hannaforgovernor.com and our healthcare system is in crisis.

I mean, Donald Trump has passed cuts to the Affordable Care Act.

He's put passed cuts to Medicaid and Medicare.

And a huge rural state like Maine, we are feeling the pain already and it's going to be worse.

So the elements of my plan are how do we shore up, especially our rural providers, how do we ensure people have access to primary care?

'Cause that's how you stay healthy.

And how do you keep access to insurance?

My family is one of those families.

We have an Affordable Care Act plan.

We paid $700 a month last year.

We're now paying over $2,000 a month this year.

So we know people have dropped coverage.

So I proposed a public option in our insurance market would help individuals and small businesses have some option that they can afford.

So essentially the state would be negotiating on behalf of those families for insurance coverage.

It's asimilar to what we did with Detego Health before Obamacare passed.

There are a lot of other challenges in our healthcare system.

I mean, as I travel Maine, I mean cuts to reproductive healthcare.

Where can you have a baby?

Not having nursing homes in certain counties.

I mean, we need a real look at how can people continue to access services.

I chair the Health and Human Services Committee (indistinct) in the legislature, there aren't easy solutions, but you need a governor who's experienced and you care deeply about the health of Maine people.

- Hannah Pingree, thanks so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it.

- Great to be here.

Thank you for covering this race.

- [Announcer] And here's NIrav Shah with Maine Public's Kevin Miller.

- Most Mainers are probably familiar with you.

Certainly your voice, your face from your leadership of the Maine CDC during the pandemic.

You stepped down from the Maine CDC after about four years in that role, in order to lead the USCDC.

When you announced your resignation, you said that you and your wife were going to be keeping your house in Brunswick and that your plan was to come back to Maine after the USCDC role ended.

You're not only back in Maine, but you're hoping to lead the state.

What was it that prompted you to get into the race?

- Thanks, Kevin.

First, and I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation.

You're right, we moved back to Maine after my service in the federal government.

That was always the plan.

I was never keen on leaving Maine in the first instance.

And so I took the job with the federal government with the stipulation that I was not gonna be a lifer there, that I would go and help stabilize things because I wanted to get back to Maine as quickly as possible.

And when I returned, what I knew for certain is that I wanted to continue in public service.

I had worked in the private sector earlier in my career, and I have done that, and I knew that I wanted to stay in public service.

Now what that looked like was somewhat unclear.

And several weeks, months after we came back to Maine, I was approached by a couple of different groups of friends to consider running for office.

My initial reaction was a little skeptical.

I sort of thought, "Gosh, are we friends?

Why would you suggest such a thing in this moment?"

But the more I thought about where we were in this country and seeing the destruction that was happening as a result of RFK and Donald Trump to not just health institutions, but a number of other, the EPA, education, FEMA, I came to the view that I could not just stand on the sidelines, while that was happening, and that frankly, all of us should be thinking about running for something right now.

In my case, what I concluded was the way in which I could both continue in public service and do the most possible to help Mainers right now was to ultimately run for governor.

- So we have a pretty robust field in Democratic primaries, you know?

There's a former house speaker who's top advisor to the current governor, former senate president, current Secretary of State.

We have a businessman whose father was governor, is now US Senator.

Your background is in public health.

I guess, what's your argument to Maine Primary voters about why they should choose you over some of these other folks who have decades of experience in Augusta?

- Well, you're exactly right.

We do have a robust field, and that's a sign of the health of Maine's democracy, at least on the democratic side of the ticket.

That said, there are a few things that I think set me apart that I think would be compelling for Democratic primary voters.

The first is that Mainers know me.

They have seen me in action, they have seen me show up, and they have seen me make tough decisions, hold people accountable, and then communicate them and about them in real time.

In that regard, Mainers have seen what I do, and they have seen what we can accomplish together.

Some of the highest vaccination rates in the country, some of the lowest age-adjusted death rates in the country.

And we did that together.

And so in that sense, Mainers have seen how I go about doing jobs of leadership.

But there are a couple of other things that I think are important.

I'm also the one candidate who has had deep experience doing something akin to what the governor does, which is running really large organizations.

The USCDC, for example, is roughly the same size in terms of the number of people, as is the state of Maine government, or at least it was when I was there.

It also has a much bigger budget than the state of Maine.

And I would say at least equal complexity, given the number of things the CDC does.

And as you noted, I was one of the leaders of that organization for two years.

- You were second in charge.

- I was second in command at the USCDC which meant my portfolio entailed everything that was going on at that agency, whether it was working with Congress, whether it was dealing with outbreaks or national security situations.

Everything that happened there, and I've had experience managing and leading, especially in times of crisis.

The third thing that I think is critical is that I am the only attorney that is running on the Democratic field.

Right off the bat, being an attorney enables you to be fluent in a lot of different policy areas as well as have comfort with things like regulation.

And in this moment of the Trump administration, what I think is important is that the way in which the Trump administration, one of the ways in which they have been routinely beaten back or held in abeyance, has been through the court system, been through the judicial branch, and as we've seen with Governor Mills and prior governors in other states as well, fluency with the court system, knowing how to use it as a sword and a shield to protect Mainers is gonna be critical.

- Looking at a few of the issues, I know, not surprisingly, you've made healthcare and public health top priorities is your campaign.

I want to ask specifically about some of your plans for helping older Mainers.

You've talked about launching a caregiver corps.

You've talked about heavy investment to help keep older Mainers in their homes, even if they have disabilities and dementia, and you want the state to play a more active role in supporting nursing homes to prevent them from going outta business.

Those are all ambitious, but costly initiatives.

I guess, you know, what's your plan for paying for things like that?

- Fantastic, Kevin.

You're absolutely right.

I mean, as one expert I spoke with here in Maine pointed out, older Mainers are our future in a number of different ways.

And so that plan is organized around that North star.

The first thing I think about, Kevin, is what are the consequences of not making these investments, of not making this additional investment in making sure Mainers can age in place and have the services they need.

The truth of the matter is, if we don't do these things, we will see even higher costs down the road through things like more falls, suicides, untimely death, starvation, hunger among older Mainers.

So we are already grappling with these costs.

The question is whether we choose to address them and avert suffering or choose to ignore them and entail suffering.

That said, we still have to pay those bills today.

So one of the avenues of additional funding that I've supported is a millionaire's tax.

I recognize that is moving through the process right now, that will generate 70 to $90 million in additional revenue.

The price tag on much of the work for older Mainers starts with about nine to $10 million in support of what's called the Older Mainers Act.

And then additional funding in the form of scholarships for those who wish to go into care, whether it's as a medical assistant or a nurse.

That additional revenue from the millionaires tax can help offset some of these additional costs.

Ultimately, the way in which our overall state budget will need to grow is not necessarily through new taxes, but through more growth, through more people coming to Maine, through more small businesses setting up shop here, generating not just jobs, but also additional tax revenue.

- Affordable housing has been a top concern, top issue for everybody in the campaign.

I guess, how would Nirav Shah's plan for addressing affordable housing differ from the other Democratic contenders?

- I start my thinking around affordable housing with doing everything we can to increase the supply.

To me, that is where the real roadblock or the real bottleneck in our system is.

There's simply not enough housing of all stripes, small starter homes, condos in high density areas, you name it, we need more of it.

So my emphasis will be on making it easier to build and then once built, making it easier for folks to get into those homes.

The easier to build starts with things like additional zone or modifications to zoning, having the state sponsor infrastructure bonds, so that we can actually get water and sewage to the right places so we can build not just single family homes, but high density homes.

Attracting more workers to Maine because the housing crisis, from a workforce perspective, is an economic opportunity.

So more folks wanting to come here to participate in the building trades.

Doing all of those things in tandem is how other states have made headway into their housing crises.

Maine can and should do the same.

Now, I want to be clear, Kevin, doing this does not entail wrecking our environment or paving over our parks or anything of that nature.

There is an opportunity here in Maine to show the world how we can build additional housing and still be environmentally responsible in doing so.

We can, for example, prioritize density as has already started happening in some places in the state, in southern Maine.

We have also a number of opportunities for so-called infill development, using buildings that are already in place and converting them or rehabbing them so they can be made into housing.

That's already happened in places like Bedford.

There are plans to do so in Bangor.

There are ways we can prioritize that without necessarily hamstringing our environment.

- At the beginning when we started talking, you mentioned part of the reason you got into the race was because you saw what's happening at the federal level.

As someone who's worked at both the state and the federal level, what role do you think the governor can and should play in challenging things that are coming, whether it's from the Trump administration or the next administration, who might be in place, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, what role would a governor play in that situation?

- Right now, governors are the first and perhaps the only line of defense against overreach and attacks by the Trump administration.

And that is in part why I am running, whether it's around vaccine policy, environmental policy, education policy, it's gonna be governors who step up.

So how, to your question, how should we think about when to engage versus not?

My principle is that I will work with anybody who has the best interest of Mainers at heart, but I will kowtow or bow down to nobody in that regard.

So there will be times when I will work with whatever administration is in power in the White House, but there will absolutely be times when the right thing to do is to say no, that is not reflective of Maine's rights or values, and we will be pushing back publicly through the court system or through whatever channel is best appropriate.

Having that balance, balancing the need to work with, while simultaneously pushing back is going to be one of the balancing acts that the next governor will have to master, the other being putting forward an affirmative vision for the state of Maine versus a vision that is entirely based on opposition to the Trump administration.

I'm endeavoring to do both, both having a positive vision, combined with one that will protect the State of Maine.

- Nirav Shah, thank you very much.

- Thanks, Kevin.

(dramatic music)