>> AS THE STRENGTH OF INSTITUTIONS IS TESTED UNDER THE WEIGHT OF DRUMS PRESIDENCY, OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT SILICON VALLEY HAS ALREADY BENT IT'S ME INDIFFERENCE, EVEN AS CHANGES TO THE H1B VISA RISK JAMMING BIG TECH'S HIRING MACHINE.

GLOBAL DIRECTOR KATIE DRUMMOND PAINTS A PICTURE OF HOW BIG TECH IS EMBRACING TRUMP.

SHE SPOKE TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT WHAT THIS RELATIONSHIP SPELLS FOR THE FUTURE OF THE INDUSTRY.

>> YOU HAVE A NEW COPY, AND IT'S CALLED, ALL HAIL THE TECHNOCRACY, YOU WROTE AN ARTICLE TO REDUCE THE SERIES AND YOU SAID ONE OF THE MOST VISIBLE CHANGES, IS THE TECH INDUSTRIES EMBRACE OF TRUMP, THE ELITE HAVE FALLEN IN LINE, DEMONSTRATING THEIR ALLEGIANCE WITH GROTESQUE DISPLAYS OF SUBMISSION SO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO SILICON VALLEY?

>> WE AT WIRED HAVE A LONG HISTORY, 32 YEAR HISTORY OF COVERING THE TECH INDUSTRY AND TECHNOLOGY MORE BROADLY AND OFTEN OF CHAMPIONING IT AND INNOVATION AND ALL FORM SO I THINK FOR US, FOR OUR PUBLICATION TO COME OUT AND MAKE THIS KIND OF STATEMENT, IT SHOULD REALLY TELL OUR READERS OR ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION, THAT WE SEE A VERY SERIOUS AND VERY TROUBLING TURN IN SILICON VALLEY AND IN THE TECH INDUSTRY.

I THINK YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, AT IMAGES OR VIDEOS OF YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY CEOS AT DINNER WITH THE PRESIDENT, SORT OF GOING AROUND, ONE BY ONE, OFFERING HIM COMPLIMENTS, FLATTERING THEM, YOU ONLY NEED TO LOOK AT TIM COOK, THE CEO OF APPLE IN THE OVAL OFFICE PRESENTING PRESIDENT TRUMP WITH A CUSTOM-MADE STATUE, WITH YOU KNOW, A GOLD BASE MADE IN UTAH.

YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE KINDS OF DEMONSTRATIONS AND DISPLAYS OF FEALTY THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN THIS COUNTRY CERTAINLY IN MY TIME WORKING AS A JOURNALIST BUT LOOKING BACK TO THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN 2016, WE SAW TECH EXECUTIVES COMING OUT PUBLICLY DENOUNCING THE PRESIDENT AND HIS STATEMENTS AGAINST IMMIGRANTS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND THEY CAME OUT SWINGING IN MANY CASES AND WHAT IS NOTABLE AND WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR READERS TO RECOGNIZE TODAY, IS THAT WE ARE SEEING THE INDUSTRY DO ALMOST A 180, FROM THAT APPROACH.

WHERE THEY ARE NOT ONLY SORT OF WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES TO COLLABORATE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND SORT OF TO FIND GAMES FOR THEIR OWN CORPORATE INTEREST, BUT THEY ARE DOING IT OVERTLY IN PUBLIC, THIS IS NOT EVEN HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES, THIS IS HAPPENING IN PLAIN SIGHT AND IT'S A TROUBLING PHENOMENON.

>> THAT ARTICLE IS AUTHORED BY STEPHEN LEAVY, AND ONE OF THE THINGS LEFT OUT AT ME BUT HERE SOMETHING THAT TOOK ME BY SURPRISE, THIS IS STEPHEN TALKING, HOW QUICKLY AND DECISIVELY THE VISIONARIES I CHRONICLED ALIGNED THEMSELVES WITH TRUMP A MAN WHOSE VALUES CLASHED WITH THE EGALITARIAN IMPULSES OF THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE FIRST TIME I HAD READ STEPHEN LEAVY'S WORKS DECADES AGO AND HE CHRONICLED THE BEGINNING OF MODERN-DAY SILICON VALLEY, THE TYPE OF ENTREPRENEURS THAT HE PROFILED THEN WERE REALLY ALMOST LIKE COUNTERCULTURE HIPPIES, THEY HAD A REBELLIOUS STREAK IN THEM, AND I'M THINKING OF THE APPLE AD, 1984, LET'S TAKE ON BIG BROTHER, AND HERE WE ARE NOW, COMING TO A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ARC WHERE FRANKLY THE BIGGEST SILICON VALLEY EXECUTIVES ARE BIG BROTHER.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, AND STEPHEN WAS IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY THE PERFECT PERSON TO WRITE THAT PIECE.

HE STARTED CHRONICLING THE TECH INDUSTRY IN THE 80s AND HAS WRITTEN SEVERAL BOOKS ABOUT SEVERAL OF THESE COMPANIES.

HE HAS MET PEOPLE LIKE MARK ZUCKERBERG, LARRY PAGE, STEVE JOBS, AT THE EARLIEST MOMENTS OF THEIR CAREERS AND WATCH THEM AND FOLLOW THEM IN THE DECADES THAT PAST, SO, FOR HIM TO MAKE THAT OBSERVATION, I THINK IT'S PARTICULARLY POIGNANT AND ITS RESIDENT BUT YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT, THE PEOPLE THAT HE WAS CHRONICLING IN THE 90s AND EARLY 2000'S, THEY WERE REBELS, AND THEY DID SEE TECHNOLOGY AND LATER, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE ADVENT OF SOCIAL PLATFORMS AS A FORCE FOR GOOD, AS A DEMOCRATIZING FORCE, AS A FORCE THAT WOULD BRING US ALL CLOSER TOGETHER THAT WOULD CREATE A MORE EGALITARIAN SOCIETY.

THAT WAS THIS REBEL SILICON VALLEY MOVEMENT FIGHTING THE STATUS QUOTE.

THE REALITY IS, THOSE SAME INDIVIDUALS RUNNING THESE COMPANIES HAVE BECOME SO WEALTHY, AND THESE COMPANIES HAVE BECOME SO WELL-FUNDED AND SO POWERFUL, THAT THEY ARE NOW VERY MUCH THE STATUS QUO.

THEY ARE THE MAN, THEY ARE, IF ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, AS POWERFUL YOU KNOW, AS THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, CERTAINLY AS GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT'S HOW MUCH CLOUT THEY HAVE.

AND WE ARE NOW SEEING WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT, AND INSTEAD OF SORT OF KEEPING THAT REBEL SPIRIT ALIVE AND WELL, THEY ARE, AT ALL COSTS, PROTECTING THEIR BUSINESS INTEREST AND THEIR DESIRE TO ESSENTIALLY CONSOLIDATE POWER AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THEY ARE WORKING SO HAND IN HAND WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> THERE'S A QUOTE IN THERE THAT HE HAS FROM A VERY PROMINENT INVESTOR NAMED MARK ANDERSON, WHO, IF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, BUILT THIS THING CALLED THE NETSCAPE BROWSER AND NOW IT'S ANCIENT HISTORY BUT IT REALLY WAS INTEGRAL INTO HOW WE RECEIVED THE INTERNET AND THE WEB AT THE TIME.

HE HAS BECOME AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL PERSON AND HE TALKS ABOUT THIS KIND OF, THIS DEAL THAT SEEMED TO BE UNDERLYING WHAT WAS THE SILICON VALLEY E THOSE OF HOW THEY COULD WORK WITH GOVERNMENT, WHAT WENT WRONG WITH THAT DEAL ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

>> AS FAR AS MARK ANDERSON SEEMS TO BE CONCERNED, THE DEAL WAS ESSENTIALLY, THE TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY IS ABLE TO OPERATE AND INNOVATE AND DO BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, EFFECTIVELY AND WITH SORT OF MINIMAL INTERVENTION AT LEAST WITH FEDERAL SUPPORT AND BUY-IN, AND IN EXCHANGE, THEY WOULD CHAMPION SORT OF SOCIAL VALUES OF THE LEFT OSTENSIBLY, RIGHT?

THAT IS THE DEAL AS HE SAW IT, AND AS HE AND OTHER EXECUTIVES IN THE VALLEY SEE IT, YOU KNOW, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOOK A VERY HEAVY, VERY DAMAGING HAND VIS-A-VIS THE TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY WHETHER IT WAS TRYING TO BREAK UP MONOPOLIES, WHETHER IT WAS TRYING TO SORT OF POLICE THE CONDUCT OF SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES OR SORT OF YOU KNOW, BEHAVIOR ON THE INTERNET TO HOLD PLATFORMS ACCOUNTABLE.

THEY FELT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEIR BUSINESSES TO GROW AND TO FLOURISH AND TO INNOVATE, AND THEY REALLY TOOK EXCEPTION TO THAT.

IN MANY INSTANCES THEY FOUND IT PERSONALLY OFFENSIVE, PERSONALLY HURTFUL.

THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT BUSINESS BEING TOUGH, THIS WAS ABOUT THEM FEELING LIKE THEIR FEELINGS HAVE BEEN HURT AND LIKE SOME, AGAIN, UNSPOKEN DEAL, HAVE BEEN VIOLATED ON THE PART OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT IS WHAT IN MANY CASES SEEMS TO HAVE PUSHED MANY OF THESE EXECUTIVES TO OPENLY EMBRACE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BECAUSE THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH AN ADMINISTRATION AND WITH REGULATORS, WHO WOULD TAKE A MORE LAX APPROACH.

SO THEY HAVE CERTAINLY TAKEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO ENSURE THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS ALIGNED WITH THEIR AGENDA, WHETHER IT'S HOW CENTRAL MEDIA COMPANY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE POLICE, HOUSE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SHOULD BE REGULATED, THEY SEE AN OPPORTUNITY IN TRUMP TO GET WHAT THEY WANT SO THEY ARE HAPPY TO THROW THAT DEAL OUT THE WINDOW BECAUSE THEY THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ALREADY DID.

THEY'RE HAPPY TO THROW THAT DEAL OUT THE WINDOW AND GO ALL IN.

>> HOW SUCCESSFUL I GUESS, FOR THEM, HOW SUCCESSFUL HAS IT BEEN OR FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WIRED THAT HAS CHRONIC -- CHRONICLED THESE THINGS, HOW DIFFERENT IS THAT NOW VERSUS SAY A YEAR AGO?

>> IN MANY RESPECTS, IT HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL.

TWO KEY EXAMPLES AND WE ARE ONLY EIGHT MONTHS INTO THIS, WE'VE GOT MORE THAN THREE YEARS TO GO TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT BUT I THINK TWO REALLY GOOD EXAMPLES ARE CRYPTOCURRENCY AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS EMBRACED CRYPTO AND OPENED THE DOOR FOR CRYPTO COMPANIES TO GROW RELATIVELY UNFETTERED AND TO BECOME MUCH MORE MAINSTREAM AND SORT OF ESTABLISHED, THEN THEY WERE EVEN A YEAR AGO WHEN THEY STILL SORT OF SKIRTED VERY MUCH BENEATH THE RADAR, BELOW THE RADAR.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS MADE IT EASIER FOR CRYPTO COMPANIES TO OPERATE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND THEN WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

I THINK WHAT'S SO INTERESTING TO ME AND TO US AT WIRED, IS IN 2023 AND 2024 WHEN GENERATIVE AI WAS REALLY REACHING MAINSTREAM --MAINSTREAM PROMINENCE, IT BLEW UP IN THE MAINSTREAM CONSCIOUSNESS, YOU HAD EXECUTIVES LIKE SAM ALTMAN PUBLICLY ON THE RECORD SAY, WE WANT REGULATION.

THIS INDUSTRY NEEDS TO BE REGULATED, BRING IT ON.

WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

FAST FORWARD TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, UNVEILING THEIR AI ACTION PLAN OVER THE SUMMER WHICH ESSENTIALLY SAYS, GO FOR IT, GUYS.

WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A VERY LIGHT HAND IN REGULATING YOU, BECAUSE WE NEED TO BEAT CHINA SO LET'S GO.

AND INSTEAD OF THE TECH EXECUTIVES SAYING HOLD ON A SECOND, WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE REGULATION WE WERE ASKING FOR, THEY SAID, WE ARE THRILLED TO WORK IN SUCH A PRO INNOVATION ENVIRONMENT.

WE ARE THRILLED TO PARTNER WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON BUILDING OUT THIS INDUSTRY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

SO REALLY SORT OF THAT DRASTIC ABOUT FACE IN AI REGULATION, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL EXAMPLES AND MOST VISIBLE SO FAR.

>> ONE OF THE QUOTES THAT STEPHEN LEAVY LAYS OUT, ABOUT CONSOLIDATION OF POWER.

AN EXTRAORDINARY TINY NUMBER BILLIONAIRES THAT CONTROL THE INFORMATION ECOSYSTEM HAVE MADE ALLYSHIP WITH THE MOST FIERCE POLITICAL POWER IN THE WORLD.

THERE'S NEVER BEEN A TIME IN HISTORY WHEN THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN COMBINED.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE A SEPARATE PIECE IN THE MAGAZINE ABOUT ELON MUSK AND HIS CONTROL OF AN ENTIRE SECTOR WHICH IS SPACE, AND HOW MUCH POWER HE HAS OVER SAY FOR EXAMPLE, THE SATELLITES, THAT ARE FLOATING AROUND RIGHT NOW, OVER WAR ZONES, ESTABLISHING RELIABLE COMMUNICATIONS FOR FRANKLY BOTH SIDES OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.

>> ELON MUSK IS A TERRIFIC EXAMPLE OF THIS.

AND THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT ELON MUSK IS WORKING VERY DILIGENTLY TO REPAIR HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION PRECISELY BECAUSE HE HAS VERY LUCRATIVE GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS THAT HE NEEDS TO MAINTAIN IN ORDER TO ESSENTIALLY BUILD YOU KNOW, A SPACE EMPIRE THAT NOW SORT OF FAR OUTSTRIPS NASA AND NASA'S ABILITY TO DO WHAT ELON MUSK IS DOING AT THEIR BEHEST AND WITH THEIR FUNDING.

SO I THINK THAT IS ONE GREAT EXAMPLE.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT FEELS REALLY RELEVANT IN THIS MOMENT IS ACTUALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH LARRY ELLISON.

THIS IS A TECH BILLIONAIRE WHO SKIRTED BENEATH THE SURFACE FOR A LONG TIME, NOT SOMEONE WHO WE AT WIRED PAID THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO IT UNTIL MAYBE SIX MONTHS AGO WHEN WE SAW HIM STANDING WITH SAM ALTMAN AND PRESIDENT TRUMP TO ANNOUNCE THIS MASSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT IN AI TECHNOLOGY, STARGATE.

WHAT WE ARE NOW SEEING WITH LARRY ELLISON AND THE ELLISON FAMILY IS INTENSELY A REALLY UNPRECEDENTED CONSOLIDATION OF CONTROL OVER MEDIA, OVER CULTURE, OVER OUR DATA, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PARAMOUNT, AND CBS, LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY OF WARNER BROS.

DISCOVERY WHICH ENCOMPASSES CNN AND THEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS TIKTOK DEAL WHICH WOULD PUT THE DATA OF 170 MILLION AMERICAN USERS IN THE HANDS OF LARRY ELLISON AND THE ELLISON FAMILY AND ORACLE, THE COMPANY HE CONTROLS.

THAT IS A STARTLING AMOUNT OF CONSOLIDATION OF SORT OF, WHAT WE CONSUME, HOW WE CONSUME IT, THE NEWS AND INFORMATION WE OBTAIN AND THE FILTERS THROUGH WHICH WE OBTAIN IT, THIS TIKTOK ALGORITHM THAT WE KNOW NOW WILL BE RETRAINED, WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'LL BE RETRAINED BUT WE KNOW THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF THE RETRAINING ARE CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH THE PRESIDENT.

>> ARE THERE LONGER-TERM COSTS FOR THE LACK OF A REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW ON AI?

I'M THINKING BACK TO HOW DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THE SOCIAL NETWORKS WERE ESSENTIALLY ALLOWED A FREE HAND.

AND I WONDER, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO LOOK AT 10 YEARS OUT AND SAY, WE DIDN'T BUT THESE PARTICULAR TYPES OF GUARDRAILS ON AI?

>> THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT SOCIAL MEDIA AS A CAUTIONARY TALE THAT CANNOT BE REPEATED, IS DEEPLY, DEEPLY UNFORTUNATE AND TO YOUR POINT, INCREDIBLY CONSEQUENTIAL.

I THINK ONE OF THE MOST SALIENT EXAMPLES HERE, IS EXACTLY THAT, IT'S CHILDREN, RIGHT, SOCIAL MEDIA HAS AN EXTREMELY DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON A GENERATION OF CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS, AND WE ARE NOW SEEING THAT EXACT SAME PHENOMENON PLAY OUT IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND HOW IT'S IMPACTING CHILDREN'S ABILITY TO LEARN, TO SOCIALIZE, TO ENGAGE IN ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS, TO SAFEGUARD THEIR MENTAL HEALTH, AND THERE IS CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT, THERE'S MEDIA COVERAGE, THERE ARE ALARM BELLS BEING SOUNDED, BUT WILL THERE BE REGULATION IN TIME TO PROTECT THIS NEXT GENERATION OF CHILDREN?

I THINK THE POTENTIAL DAMAGE THAT WE ARE DOING ON AN ENVIRONMENTAL LEVEL WITH THE DATA CENTERS WITH INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S BEING BUILT, WITH THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF ENERGY, THAT ARE REQUIRED TO FUEL THIS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE BOOM, THE FACT THAT THAT IS HAPPENING WITH LITTLE TO NO OVERSIGHT OR REGULATION OR DESIRE TO SORT OF PUT STANDARDS IN PLACE FOR HOW THESE COMPANIES OUGHT TO OPERATE, WHAT IS EFFICIENTLY -- EFFICIENCY LOOK LIKE, THE FACT THAT THAT IS ON A CONVERSATION HAPPENING ON A DAILY BASIS RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE INCREDIBLY CONCERNING ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ADMINISTRATION THAT ALREADY DOESN'T SEEM PARTICULARLY INCLINED TO ACCEPT CLIMATE CHANGE AS A FACT, WHICH IT IS.

>> RECENTLY WE HAD NEWS THAT AFFECTED THE TECH INDUSTRY WHICH WAS THE H1B VISA PROGRAM HAVING AN ADDITIONAL $100,000 FEE PUT ONTO IT, FOR ALL OF THE HIGHLY SKILLED WORKERS.

I WONDER, WHAT IS THE RIPPLE EFFECT GOING TO BE ON TECH?

AND I SEE THAT KIND OF BREAKING IN MY OWN HEAD, DIFFERENTLY FOR AMAZON, THE LARGEST EMPLOYER OF H1B VISAS THAT MIGHT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THE $100,000 VERSUS A SMALLER COMPANY THAT MIGHT BE USING SOME OF ITS HIGHLY SKILLED LABOR AND JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO TACK ON AN EXTRA $100,000?

>> LOOK, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S THE POINT.

FIRST OF ALL, IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT NOT ONLY IS AMAZON THE TOPMOST SPONSOR OF H1B VISAS BUT RIGHT AFTER AMAZON COMES EVERY OTHER BIG TECH COMPANY, THOSE VISAS ARE VITAL TO THIS INDUSTRY AND THEY HAVE BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

YES, COULD THESE COMPANIES PAY THE FEE?

ABSOLUTELY, WILL THEY HAVE TO?

THAT IS LESS CLEAR.

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM HIM MANY TIMES, IS HE IS HAPPY TO DO A DEAL, IF HE GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT.

IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT SORT OF DEALS OUR BROKER THAT PERHAPS CREATE EXEMPTIONS FOR CERTAIN COMPANIES.

NOW, IT'S ALSO QUITE EASY TO EXTRAPOLATE FROM ALL OF THIS, OR HYPOTHESIZE THAT THE COMPANIES THAT WILL NOT GET THOSE KINDS OF EXEMPTIONS, THE COMPANIES THAT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT TRUMP DECIDES TO DO, WILL BE VULNERABLE TO THOSE FEES, ARE THE STARTUPS.

THEY ARE THE DISRUPTORS, THEY ARE YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS, WE HOPE, RIGHT, THE NEW REBELS, THE NEW RENEGADES OF THE INDUSTRY, WHO ARE BUILDING SOMETHING NEW, SOMETHING FRESH, SOMETHING EXCITING.

ALL OF THAT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE STOMPED OUT, AND WHAT WE WILL THEN SEE IS GREATER AND GREATER CONSOLIDATION OF POWER, OF CLOUT, OF MIGHT, AMONG THIS BIG TECH COHORT WHO ARE ALIGNING THEMSELVES WITH THE PRESIDENT.

SO THE PROSPECT OF SORT OF STIFLING INNOVATION AND STIFLING THE SMALLER COMPANIES IS EXACTLY THE RISK WE ARE LOOKING AT, AND THAT BENEFITS BIG TECH AND OF COURSE THE ADMINISTRATION SEEMS AMBIVALENT ABOUT THAT.

>> IS THIS AN IDEOLOGICAL SHIFT IN SILICON VALLEY, OR IS IT TRANSACTIONAL?

I MEAN, IF IT'S TRANSACTIONAL, SOME OF THE TECH LEADERS HAVE SAID AND DONE THINGS ANYWHERE LIKE WELL, IF THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN SO TO SPEAK, FOR FOUR YEARS, ARE YOU GOING TO WALK SOME OF THIS BACK?

>> YOU KNOW WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS CADRE OF TECH EXECUTIVES, AND WHETHER WE ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING IDEOLOGICAL OR WE ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING PURELY TRANSACTIONAL, I REALLY DO THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE EXECUTIVE, RIGHT?

THEY ARE NOT A MONOLITH, ULTIMATELY, WHEN I TAKE THEM ALL IN AGGREGATE, WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT IS STRATEGIC BEHAVIOR, I MEAN, THIS IS ALL ABOUT BUSINESS TRANSACTION, AN OPPORTUNITY AND OPPORTUNISM.

BUT I THINK THAT IN AND OF ITSELF, REPRESENTS ITS OWN IDEOLOGY.

IT'S THE IDEOLOGY OF SORT OF, PURE, UNFETTERED CAPITALISTIC GAME.

THAT IS NOW, SADLY, MAYBE, THE IDEOLOGY OF SILICON VALLEY.

IT IS PROFIT, AT ALL COSTS, EVEN IF THAT MEANS PRESENTING PRESIDENT TRUMP WITH A CUSTOM- MADE STATUE IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL.

AND THAT IS ULTIMATELY, WHAT SILICON VALLEY IS NOW.

>> THE SPECIAL ISSUE OF WIRED IS CALLED ALL HAIL THE TECHNOCRACY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.