(bright upbeat music) (film reel clicks) - [Announcer] Have you ever wondered where the television signal you are watching is coming from?

(choral music) (machine whirs and clicks) - Welcome to "True North."

(upbeat music) (upbeat electronic music) (upbeat 80s music) - Good evening, and welcome to "Maine Watch."

(soft upbeat music) (machine clicks and whirs) - Welcome to "From the Vault," a celebration of 60 years of Maine public television.

It was over 72 years ago on June 1st, 1950, when Margaret Chase Smith, Maine's first female senator, made her now famous Declaration of Conscience speech.

She became the first member of Congress to condemn the anti-communist witch hunt led by her fellow Republican senator Joseph McCarthy.

On this episode, we will take a look at that important speech and enjoy an in-depth conversation with Margaret herself.

We start in 2006 with the history series "Maine Experience."

The first segment takes us back to 1950 as we see the events that led up to her taking her brave stand.

Also in that episode is a fascinating look back at 130 years of the grange in Maine.

In the second half of our show, we feature a 1992 episode of "Personally Speaking.

Host Patsy Wiggins has a half-hour conversation with Margaret that touches on her run in with McCarthy, her 1964 presidential bid, the Margaret Chase Smith Library, and much more.

Now, if you would like to learn more about her life and works, perhaps a trip to her library and museum in Skowhegan can fit into your summer plans.

For more information on how to set up a visit, go to mcslibrary.org.

Now let's go back to 1950 via this 2006 episode of "Maine Experience."

- [Announcer] The following program is a production of the Maine Public Broadcasting Network.

(gulls caw) (water laps) - [Woman] Coming up next on "Maine Experience," find out how one stalwart senator from Maine altered the course of history with an unpopular but courageous stand taken on the Senate floor in 1950.

Also, learn about the grange and its 130-year history in Maine, and ever wonder how people survived Maine winters in the 1900s?

(wind blows) (gentle pleasant music) - [Announcer] Production of "Maine Experience" on the Maine Public Broadcasting Network is made possible in part by Elsie Viles to ensure that the stories of Maine history continue to be told, by Cynthia Crocker, by the Richard Bresnahan family, and by the members of MPN, whose generous contributions help bring you the quality television and radio programs you enjoy.

Thank you.

(birds chirp) (pleasant upbeat music) (soft dramatic music) (water rushes) - [Nick] Margaret Chase Smith was born in a mill town where the silent strength of the mighty Kennebec rushes to meet the ocean.

She was Maine's daughter, an unyielding fortress of truth and dignity.

And when a shroud of darkness and paranoia fell upon this great nation, she dared to lead the way back to reason.

This is one chapter of her life.

- Wake up, America.

Wake up to the fact that you are gradually committing national suicide in a selfish manner in which too many of your leaders selfishly wrangle among themselves, in which too many of your leaders sow doubt and dissension and hatred among your people, just for their own political gains.

Wake up, America.

- [Nick] Four years before the rest of the nation awakened to reason, Margaret Chase Smith, a Senator from Maine, warned of a dangerous political undercurrent.

(muffled chatter) - Ladies and gentlemen, you've heard the reports that enemy planes are approaching.

In less than three hours, an H bomb might fall over Portland.

(siren wails) (tense brooding music) - [Nick] After World War II, the global threat of communism seeped into the hearts and minds of every American.

(explosions boom) Nightmare images of Reds taking over became our daily bread.

And then it happened.

On a silent morning in August of 1949, the Soviet Union detonated an atomic bomb, (muffled speaking in foreign language) (explosion booms) wiping out our monopoly on the ultimate weapon.

How could this happen?

Allegations of communist spies seem to be everywhere.

(muffled chatter) (gavel bangs) - Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

- It is perfectly clear to me, gentlemen, that if you continue in this particular- - [Man] Now mister, will you directly answer that question?

- You have only one idea, - Answer the question!

- and that is to cause strife - Do you understand?

- in the industry, - You're excused!

- chaos in the industry.

(muffled shouting) (dramatic music) - [Nick] And as the fever of fear began to rise, so did some political ambitions.

- I'm not gonna ask you to take my word for whether there are communists in government and in the State Department.

I have in my hand a document which I've never used before.

- In many ways, Americans never got a chance to gather their collective breath after World War II.

We went from crises to crises, whether it was in Iran over oil, in Greece and Turkey, the fall of China in 1949, the Soviets gaining the bomb.

It all caused Americans to feel that, around every corner, there was a new crisis, and Joe McCarthy was able to exploit that and talk about the fact that spies were operating within the government.

- Even if there is only one communist in the State Department, that would still be one communist too many.

(crowd cheers) - [Nick] But one no-nonsense freshman senator from Skowhegan, Maine, Margaret Chase Smith, saw Senator Joseph McCarthy for the dangerous demagogue that he really was.

She witnessed him firsthand twist facts and persecute with no evidence.

And while other members of Congress weighed their political careers, Margaret Chase Smith weighed her integrity and her conscience.

(slow dramatic music) On June 1st, 1950, in a speech upon the Senate floor, the only woman senator tried to bring reason to a nation's escalating hysteria.

- [Margaret] I would like to speak briefly and simply about a serious national condition.

It is a national feeling of fear and frustration that could result in national suicide and the end of everything that we Americans hold dear.

- [Nick] It was a direct attack against Senator Joseph McCarthy and his tactics, though she would never mention him by name.

Before giving the speech, she would encounter McCarthy.

- As she's going to the Senate that day, she gets into the Senate subway tram, and Joe McCarthy's there, and he notices the concern on her face, and he says, "Margaret, you seem worried.

You're giving a speech today," and she says, "Yes, Joe, as a matter of fact, I am, and you're not going to like it," to which he replied, "Why, is it about me?"

And she said, "Yes, it is, but I'm not gonna mention you by name."

- [Margaret] Today, our country is being psychologically divided by the confusion and the suspicions that are bred in the United States Senate to spread like cancerous tentacles, a know nothing, suspect everything attitude.

- [Nick] Six Republican senators would support her Declaration of Conscience speech.

- Her speech on June 1st, 1950 was, in fact, a very courageous thing because Joe McCarthy had a track record.

He had demonstrated his ability to abuse his influence to defeat opponents of his.

- And wait till you hear the bleeding hearts scream and cry about our methods of trying to drag the truth from those who know or should know who covered up a 5th Amendment communist major.

But they say, "Oh, it's all right to uncover them, but don't get rough doing it, McCarthy."

(congregation chuckles) (slow dramatic music) - [Nick] McCarthy would not let her threat go unchallenged.

For the next four years, true to her stoic Maine roots, Smith would smile on the outside, but inside the halls of the Senate, she suffered in silence, paying the price for her stand on truth.

Maneuvering behind her back, the influential McCarthy eliminated Smith from key investigative committees and turned colleagues against her.

With the exception of Wayne Morse of Oregon, one by one, the other senators who signed her speech would desert her.

And then in 1954, McCarthy would try to eliminate her altogether.

He would go after her in her own state.

- On June 1st, 1950, the then junior senator from the state of Maine, the first woman ever elected to the Senate, Margaret Chase Smith, arose on the Senate floor and read what has come to be known as her Declaration of Conscience.

"We are Republican," she said, "but we are first Americans.

Certain elements of the Republican party have materially added to the confusion in the hopes of riding our party to victory through the selfish political exploitation of fear, bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance."

There were those who said that Mrs. Smith would pay the price during the 1954 election in Maine.

Now it is 1954, and on June 21, the senator will know what kind of a price she must pay for her speech of conscience.

- [Nick] In an attempt to completely eliminate her voice of reason, McCarthy provided a candidate against Smith in Maine's Republican primary, Robert L. Jones of Biddeford.

- So it was only fair to ask the question, why is it that we're fighting communists with one hand and promoting 'em in our own army with the other?

- Victory is not so dear to me that I shall get down to the gutter level of this outside opposition by replying to it.

Instead, I'm running on my record.

- She has stated repeatedly that she will stand on her record, and I ask her tonight, what record?

- [Nick] But the people of Maine saw right through McCarthy's puppet.

Their hearts and minds would stay true to Margaret Chase Smith.

- You're not fooling anyone!

You're not fooling anyone, Mr. Symington.

- [Nick] And by the spring of 1954, the rest of the nation had had enough of McCarthy as well.

- If I can just get you to come down here and take the oath so we can get the answers to some questions.

Now you're not fooling anyone at all.

- Senator, senator.

- I'm sure of that.

- Let me tell you something.

The chair believes that the American people have had a look at you for six weeks.

You're not fooling anyone either.

- I think the exposures made in the hearings will help prevent future abuses of power.

Millions of people have seen firsthand something no one could describe to them, that they have literally had their eyes opened to what is actually going on in Washington.

- [Nick] On December 2nd, 1954, Joseph McCarthy's reign of fear came to an end.

The Senate voted 67 to 22 in favor of censoring him, rendering him powerless, and the senator from Maine, whose conscience refused to be silenced, had been heard at last.

(film reel clicks) (upbeat 30s music) (film reel clicks) (gulls caw) (water laps) (car whooshes past) (upbeat harmonica music) - [Narrator] As you travel through Maine from rural crossroads to the center of towns and villages, you often see a grange hall.

- [Woman] Anything going on, it was always the grange.

That was their meeting place.

- [Man] But the main thing about the grange, it was farmer oriented.

- [Man] This was the center of the community.

- [Narrator] These buildings are at the heart of what held Maine's communities together, and they opened the door to a past that can still be heard today.

(upbeat 30s music) (heels clack) - [Man] Well, 1934 came first to remember the grange.

- [Man] With generous hearts and open hands.

- It's patriotism with.

- With goodness and wisdom.

- [Man] We say welcome to the grange.

- [Narrator] Oliver Hudson Kelly founded the National Grange, or Patrons of Husbandry, in Washington, DC in 1867.

(upbeat parlor piano music) As a former mason, Kelly wanted to create a fraternal order that would educate and alleviate the isolation of poor dirt farmers who knew little of modern farm methods.

Granges sprang up throughout Maine, beginning with the Eastern Star #1 in Hampden, all the way to #574 Millstream Grange in Vienna.

(upbeat bright whistling music) The Houlton Grange became the largest in the world with over 1,200 members.

- What surprises me that the Houlton Grange has carried on the long.

It's still open and going.

They have bean suppers quite often, and they're attended pretty well.

(muffled chatter) (upbeat pleasant piano music) - 100 years ago, they joined the grange 'cause they had nothing else in their community, and that was a place to go 'cause they meet a lot of people.

Imagine probably there was a lot of marriages.

- [Narrator] More than a social club, the grange lobbied for farmers' interests, from tariffs to taxes to educational opportunities.

(lively patriotic music) One of their biggest legislative victories was getting rural mail delivery, which greatly lessened the isolation of farm families.

In grange ceremonies today, you can still hear the words that have bound generations of grangers together as they work their way through levels or degrees of knowledge.

♪ Come patrons, let us join our hands ♪ ♪ Around our sacred shrine ♪ We pledge to each fraternal love as sacred and divine ♪ ♪ We pledge fidelity ♪ Hold fast and to your vow ♪ In love, in truth, in charity ♪ (heels clack) ♪ The pledge you gave us now - Worthy, sir, I have the privilege of introducing brother John Ryan, who has been chosen master of Houlton Grange.

I have no doubt that he will carry out all the important duties of his office with fidelity.

- You will place your right hand over your heart, pronounce your pronoun I, your name, and the office to which you've been elected.

- I, John Ryan, have been elected master of Houlton Grange.

- Thank you.

- Doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman or whatever you are, you can be master of anything.

It's not like some lodges where a woman wouldn't be in even in 'em.

But the grange is a family affair.

- [Narrator] This unusually progressive attitude for the 1800s led to the success of the grange as it became the center of community life for men and women.

- There was stage, which was used for all activities in the town, for weddings, for movies.

- 10 cents to go see a movie.

- [Narrator] Many of the grange halls are laid out in the same way, with a kitchen and dining area downstairs and a large assembly hall upstairs.

(muffled chatter) (pleasant upbeat piano music) The architectural details give each hall an individual character.

Before welfare and social security existed, granges looked out for their members by organizing insurance companies.

- In the early days, there wasn't the social safety net that we have today to support people when they had problems, and I think that was one of the precepts of the order that you took care of your brothers and sisters, and it still is.

(bright upbeat piano music) - [Narrator] Some granges created co-op stores to pool the farmers' buying power.

In Aroostook County, the Houlton Grange store was legendary.

- The grange store in Houlton, well, they sold about everything.

- I know our grandmother, she'd get off the train in Houlton, walk over to the grange store.

I think it's the only store she ever went to.

She could get everything there that she needed, even Grandfather's shoe in the back, she could get there.

- Somebody might bring in a whole bunch of eggs, and they'd get a credit slip.

We'd buy their eggs.

You were there to save farmers.

It was a farm co-op.

They were distributors for Goodyear tires.

They bought cart loads of flour, women's apparels, men's apparels, groceries, hardware, building materials, shingles, that filler station down here.

(siren wails) (flames crackle) - [Narrator] The Houlton Grange store burned down in 1960, but the hall next door survived.

The store had been losing business to the newly emerging supermarkets.

It was not rebuilt.

(crickets chirp) Since the 1960s, membership has declined, and more than 400 grange halls have closed.

- Grange, rise.

- However, over 170 granges remain active in Maine, still offering insurance, investment opportunities, and travel discounts to members.

Youth grange continues to grow.

- The myth is that a lot of people think that, "Well, I didn't think I could join the grange because I'm not a farmer."

Well, probably 98% of our members aren't farmers anymore.

It's a place for them to all go and interact with other people and get involved in community service and social activity that I think all people really long for, but they just don't know where they're gonna get it from.

(bugs chitter) (pleasant upbeat piano music) (up-tempo jaunty string music) (soft music) - [Nick] Three paper mills inhabited this stretch of the Androscoggin River, between Topsham and Lisbon, in the 1900s.

The newest mill in the Pejepscot Paper family began in 1893 when oxen teams, a dozen horses, steam drills, and some 70 workers broke the ground.

Here, the eastern shore of the river is prepared for damming.

In the next photo workers move boulders and timber using a steam crane to form the beginnings of the dam.

After six months, the dam takes shape.

By the turn of the 20th century, a paper mill was born and boom times arrived.

In its prime, this mill employed more than 180 paper workers.

(up-tempo jaunty string music) (gulls caw) (water laps) - [Narrator] You think it's hard to get up on a cold morning?

(wind blows) Imagine back 100 years or so to Maine in 1895, when Jedediah's mother wakes him up.

It's below freezing in his room.

Jed, like a lot of kids, didn't wanna wear his night cap.

- [Mother] Son, wake up.

Come on downstairs where it's warm.

- [Narrator] But his mother, father, and most people of his time wore them to stay warm at night.

Julia Hunter, the textile curator at the Maine State Museum, is aware of other reasons people in Jed's day wore night caps.

(paper rustles) - [Julia] Here we have night caps for ladies, and it would've been attractive, even if the lady hadn't been able to get her hair washed for a couple of months, which sounds shocking to us now but was not unusual.

- [Narrator] Last night, Jed's mom heated a block of soapstone and wrapped it in a towel to put under his covers.

These stones keep their heat and make an effective bed warmer.

Many artifacts once used by Mainers are archived at the Maine State Museum in Augusta.

- This bed warmer came from the house of Seth Sturdivant, and Seth was quite important because he was a part of George Washington's guard during the Revolution, moved up to Buckfield after the war on Revolutionary War lands, and did quite well.

- [Narrator] Like most winter mornings, Jed makes a dash over the cold floor to get in front of the stove in the kitchen (water splashes) (metal clangs) where he'll dress and wash up.

Jed's family had a year-round task keeping up on fuel.

An average family would need 20 cords of wood to make it through a winter.

That's equivalent to two trailer trucks of logs that had to be cut, split, and stacked.

Jed might also have to help with snow removal before he could leave for school.

- One of the greatest tools for snow was the old snow shovel, and we know nowadays they're plastic, but back then, they were worried about keeping them light and rugged as well.

And so when you look at this, you notice the split handle, which is very light.

You notice the thin boards, but you've gotta have a strong edge, so you put a metal edge on it.

- [Narrator] Actually, a good snowfall made winter travel easier.

(bright upbeat music) A roller would pack the snow down to make a base for sleighs.

- Right here in front of me is a sleigh that had to be set up for the mailman, and this one is a sleigh that came out of the Houlton area.

Last used, we understand, around 1910 by a gentleman by the name of David Watson.

- [Narrator] To stay warm in their sleighs, people might use anything, from hot potatoes to fancy foot warmers.

- This is a buffalo robe.

A great many of their hides were brought east and lined with felt, as this one is, and were used to keep people warm when they were driving in their sleighs and their carriages and later in their early automobiles.

(soft bright chiming music) - [Narrator] Expected to wear dresses all year round, women needed their own ways to keep warm.

- [Julia] This is a silk quilted petticoat, and this is a form that goes back to the 18th century.

- [Narrator] Several layers thick, petticoats like this were worn under a wool dress so that a woman built her own little microclimate, very warm and snug from the waist down in houses that never got much above freezing.

As time went by, Mainers found new ways to take the chill and a lot of the work out of winter.

(engine rumbles) (kids shout) But many of winter's simple joys haven't changed a bit since Jed's day.

(gentle pleasant music) - [Announcer] Production of "Maine Experience" on the Maine Public Broadcasting Network is made possible in part by Elsie Viles to ensure that the stories of Maine history continue to be told, by Cynthia Crocker, by the Richard Bresnahan family, and by the members of MPBN, whose generous contributions help bring you the quality television and radio programs you enjoy.

Thank you.

(bright pleasant upbeat music) (gentle pleasant music) (bright upbeat early 90s music) - I'm Patsy Wiggins, and welcome to "Personally Speaking."

This is our premier program, and in the weeks to come, we hope to provide you with insights into the lives of some of Maine's most interesting people.

This week, we are pleased to have with us one of the nation's great states women.

Elected to the United States Congress in 1940, she served for more than three decades, first in the House of Representatives and then as a United States senator from 1948 to 1973.

She was the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee and, until 1981, held the record for consecutive roll call votes with 2,941 votes.

Since her retirement from a remarkable career in government, she has been an active visiting lecturer and professor at numerous colleges and universities.

She is, of course, Senator Margaret Chase Smith, and thank you for joining us.

It's wonderful to see you again.

We met about five years ago and at great length talked about what was going on in the world.

We have just finished a very interesting, sometimes wild, crazy presidential campaign.

I would love to hear what you've thought about all of this.

- Well, I think you've described it very well.

It's been difficult to follow or difficult for me, and I've not tried to follow it because I'm out of politics completely.

I would like it if they discussed issues more than personalities, however.

- Did you think there was a little bit of too much of the mudslinging?

Mudslinging's not new to political campaigns, but was this time around something different from what you are used to?

- Not so much different, but it was repetitive.

They kept repeating over and over again the same stories.

They didn't give us anything new to think about.

- So what does it say to you about how we elect people?

How is that changing?

- Well, I don't know.

I think people have lost interest in voting.

I think the public has lost interest, and I am anxious to get the final results of the polls or the voting to see how it compares with earlier years.

- You are a great proponent of a two-party system.

This time we had - That's right.

- Ross Perot.

What did you think about this in terms of that particular element?

- Well, I like the two-party system.

I think that we should stay with that and not go outside.

I did not listen to the debates very often.

In fact, I didn't call 'em debates.

I thought they were just talks.

So I did not follow them as closely as I would have perhaps if I had been in closer to it.

- I couldn't help but thinking in this presidential debate and also during this presidential election and having talked to you.

Of your 1964 bid for the presidency, your name was brought up for nomination at the convention, first woman to run for presidency.

What would it have been like if Margaret Chase Smith had been elected president of the United States?

- I had to say, of course, I got into it so very late and had no intention of doing it until I received calls and visits from young matrons, young men from the state of Illinois saying that they did not wanna vote for the two that were running, and they didn't want their children to have parents who were not voting, and would I please enter the race?

I had no intention of such a thing because it was far too late.

I was too busy doing what I was doing to get into it, but I finally gave in because they were a little pathetic on it.

They seemed so sincere and they did do a good job out there.

I think I received about 27 or 8% of the vote in Illinois, which is amazing.

I was amazing since I had not been there, but it was so late.

It was time of the Kennedy assassination, and I did not get my announcement in until the last of January of the year of the election, so there was no chance for me to win.

Wouldn't have been anyway, probably, but it was a great experience, and I think it was good, generally speaking, as far as people were concerned.

- You cited at the time lack of money, lack of organization, and lack of time.

Lack of money.

Consider the amount of money that is spent today in any election, really.

What do you think about that?

- Well, there was lack of money, but if I had had the money, I would not have spent it because I don't believe in going in trying to buy elections.

You have to have money now for organization purposes, and this is very important, but that is the work that should be done long before announcements are made, in my opinion, and it is not usually done as perfectly.

They do it as they go along, but it's hard.

It's difficult for me to sit on the outside and be critical of what has been done because I'm sure times have changed since I was a candidate.

- If you had made it into the White House, what would you have done?

What changes would you have made?

- You mean in the- - Had you been elected as president?

- Oh, (laughs) that's a big question.

I never got that close to know what I was going to do.

- Never thought about dreaming about that?

- Yes, I thought about it a good deal because I never can tell what will happen, but I didn't think of it in the terms that I should have if I had been in it sincerely and honestly, and I was sincere and honest, but it was just, you see, it was less than a year ago before the voting came, and I could not travel because I had a rule not to miss votes in the Senate, and so I could not travel very much.

And I did a great deal by mail, and the people who were interested, I received delegates from the entire top states of the country.

- Must be one of your most memorable periods of your wonderful political career.

Was your Declaration of Conscience speech, 1950, Joe McCarthy was terrifying members of Congress and the nation.

- Well, that was quite a period in my life, and I was on appropriations committee, and as I left the committee meetings at noon or soon after, I would stop into the Senate chamber to see what was going on.

And I heard Senator McCarthy talking and being very critical without cause, as far as some people were concerned, and I would go back to my office and say to my assistant that something had to be done.

He reminded me of a statement that I had made earlier that if you had any criticism, offer a substitute or keep quiet.

And he said, "What are you doing about it?"

And I said, "Oh, I can't do anything.

I can't get into such a debate."

And he said, "Then don't continue to criticize."

And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, "Perhaps I should say something," and that is how I happened to write my statement.

It was a brief statement, actually one page of typed letters.

But then I thought I couldn't make the statement without making a speech.

And it was Memorial weekend, Memorial Day weekend, and I came to Maine and worked on that the entire way up and back and came back to the Senate and had not told anyone about it.

I knew that there'd be ways to stop me from making the speech because there was quite a support in the Senate for Senator McCarthy, and I did not like it, didn't think it was good for the country.

But I finally did do the speech, and my assistant who held the releases stood by the door, and I told him not to for at least two minutes until I'd gotten on my feet.

And when I saw him out of the corner of my eye leave, I knew that I was on my own, and it was only 15-minute speech, but it received tremendous publicity, of course.

And I sat down to see if Senator McCarthy would attack me or ask me questions.

He sat for five minutes and left the floor, and that was the end of that.

But it turned out to be well timed and well needed, and I'm not sorry that I did it.

- Another Declaration of Conscience speech you made, perhaps not as widely known, was in 1970 during the upheavals on campuses.

And then you said that you might make another Declaration of Conscience speech in 1990.

Have you thought about that?

Would you want to speak out on something?

- That's right.

That's exactly as it came about, and when 1970 came, there were many calls for me to make my speech, and I said, "Not until 1990.

I only make that kind of a speech once in 20 years."

And the word came back in 1990 that it was time for me to make that speech, and I was not ready.

I was not in the mood, I guess, and I kept delaying, and no, I did not make it, which I'm sorry for, because there was plenty to talk about.

And it's a great deal to talk about at this time, but I can't seem to get to writing in a brief way all that I have on my mind.

- Would there be one particular thing you'd like to talk about?

- Well, yes.

I think the apathy of the American people is basic, and I think this is what we have come to.

The voting of the polls have shown that.

They don't go to the polls.

They don't take an interesting elections, and it seems to me there ought to be some way to have, and yet, if I say this, I'm wrong, mandatory voting.

- You would be for mandatory voting?

- Well, I'm not sure.

I've tried to work this out in my mind, and I think there ought to be something, some way so that people would have to express themselves and not only hear from a few people.

- If we could talk a little bit about General Bill Lewis, who was a wonderful friend of yours and also a great advisor, and he was with you throughout your Senate career and did a great deal of research for you.

Can you describe your relationship with the general?

Don Larrabee called it one of the greatest love stories he's ever known.

- (laughs) I don't think there's much love to it except for hard work, but it was a very, very welcome kind of love.

And he was a young attendee who was on Mr. Forrestal's staff during the war, and when I asked for a study of all that was going on in areas of the war activities, he, the chairman of the committee, called on Mr. Forrestal and asked for two or four young lawyers to help him do what I had asked to be done about a study, and Mr. Lewis was one of them.

And strange it may seem, he was very young, and strange it may seem, he was assigned to me, and his first duty was to sit in a committee that I was asking questions on, and every little while he would pass a question to me.

I had not worked with him and didn't know him, of course, and I would ask the question because if I didn't, I thought he wouldn't give me another one, and if I did, I wouldn't know how to answer if somebody came back with a question to me.

It was really quite an experience, but he stayed with me I think about 30 years, even after I was out of the Senate and helped me.

He was an attorney.

He was a major general in the Air Force Reserve, and he served a wonderful purpose in addition to being a wonderful friend.

- He died suddenly of a heart attack.

Was that devastating?

- He died very suddenly.

He was at his house down on the coast and went out to do some rug cleaning, I think.

I wasn't there, and he came in and apparently he must have been very tired because he was found sitting on his couch with his head on his shoulder with a smile on his face, and he had had a heart attack, and the smile was so like him but rather a strange way to find a person.

- And devastating for you.

- He was a great loss to me, great loss to me, but he had served a tremendous purpose all those years.

- He was also going to help you, you had hoped, to write your autobiography.

- Well, I continued to delay that.

I am very anxious to get started on it because mine has been a long career, and he, of course, knew me in all moods.

He knew me in my good days, my bad days, and I thought that he could be as fair as anybody and get in some of the more interesting episodes in my life.

But we put it off too long, and I'm still having calls from people who wanna write for me, and I think I wanna do it myself, but I don't have the time.

I'm too busy doing everything else.

- Tell us a little bit about your schedule these days.

You are busier than five years ago when we were meeting, you were very busy, but it seems you're busier now.

- You'd think I was working for a living.

(women laugh) I work for a living, all right, but it's not very much pay in it, in money at least, but it's great satisfaction.

Yes, I have the Margaret Chase Smith Library, which is really a research library, not a lending library, and it is doing, in my opinion, doing a very, very good job.

And we have a good many schools come in.

Rather than lecture them, I let the students, whatever age, ask me questions, and sometimes it brings on a series of discussions, which I think is good for them and very good for me, of course.

And I have the schools, the youngest are the 2nd grade, and that's not often, but it goes up into the high school and the colleges and universities, and they come in and do the same thing, and I think it's serving a very good purpose.

We should come in sometime.

- Oh, I've been, and it's beautiful.

I haven't been in a couple years, and I hear there have been wonderful new things added to your display, of all your political careers and other part of the library, very interesting.

- It's full of history.

It has everything and they change the exhibits regularly.

We have quite a staff, a man by the name of, I won't go into the details of it, I guess.

- Okay.

There is one thing that is very troubling to you right now in your life.

Your eyesight is failing.

Would you tell us a little bit about what's happening and how that's affecting you?

- Well, I've always had very, very good eyesight.

In fact, I never wore glasses as far as need was concerned.

I used to wear them so as to use my hand when I went to speak.

I thought it looked professional, but it's a very difficult thing to explain.

It is a very, very small vessel from the brain that brings fluid down through a thread-like vessel, and if it breaks, it closes that eye completely, and I did not know it for years.

The doctors say that perhaps I've had this for 25, 30 years.

- Do you remember at any time something happening or making, was there darkness at any time?

No.

- Nothing.

- No.

I don't remember anything, and in fact, if I had not put my head, my chin down on my hand one day and my one over my other eye, I never would've known it because there was no feeling.

There is no feeling.

It's a macular problem, and there's been nothing found to correct it.

They're making a little gain here and there, but it'll be a long time before they find a cure for it.

- How does that affect you?

You're a great reader, writer.

- It's had, of course, a very great effect on it.

I am not a very good penman.

I don't know if I could read it if I wrote it if I had my eyes, but I have to have someone with me a good deal in order to read whatever I want read.

I'm only beginning now to not be able to read with both eyes.

- And are you using the tapes?

- No, I haven't started with the tape yet.

They're great, and I'm going to start very shortly.

I was waiting until this right eye was adjusted so I would know what was going to happen to it, and I'm still seeing outta my left eye and seeing you very clearly this morning.

- I'm glad.

It's so nice to have you here.

- You still look just like you always look.

- Thank you very much.

Your rose is your trademark, and it looks like this vase with the water in it must be similar to the one that you wore in your early campaigning days when it all started, right?

- This is plastic.

I wore a little gold one, pin, and I'm not much on pins, and there was a hole in the top for water, and so I would put some water in it.

And one time I had put a dandelion or a piece of goldenrod or anything, but when the roses came in, I started using a rose, and it has become such a part of me that when I was in the Senate, the senators would come over.

If I didn't have one on, asked if I forgot to dress, but it's an easy habit to get into.

- If you could pick out one of the most memorable times of your career, what would it be?

- I suppose if I go down history at all, it will be the Declaration of Conscience.

I've had so many other incidents and so many other privileges and activities that it's very, very difficult for me to choose one over another, but serving the people from Maine as I did for so long without any changes, as far as time was concerned, I think pleases me best, the service that I gave the people.

- You served over 32 years in the House and Senate.

- 36.

I was in the Senate.

I was in the capital 36 years.

- 36 years.

Your defeat in 1971, Hathaway, '72, excuse me, '74, excuse me, by William Hathaway was a real blow.

Were you upset with the Maine voters when you lost that election?

- No.

No, I did not want to run and would not have, except the man who wanted to win that campaign made so many threats and made so much talk that I had no way of announcing.

I was about ready to announce that I was not gonna run again, but I could not very well do that after what was said.

So I went through it and worked very hard for the primary campaign and won by a large vote.

I've forgotten the percentage.

- And that was Bob Monks that you beat - Yes.

- in the primary.

- But then I was pretty tired.

I worked hard when I was in the Senate.

- Sure did.

- I was pretty tired, and I was pretty tired after the campaign, and I just gave up and didn't do anything in the regular election at all.

I would make a few speeches but nothing else, and I think it was my fault that I did not win, but I never had been sorry that I didn't like to be out under those circumstances, but I was very pleased to be out where I could do something else and get a little rest.

- I'd say you weren't resting a lot, but you were out more and more each week, - That's right.

- it seems.

And is there any one thing you'd like to do still?

Traveling or speaking or is there anything unfinished business here?

- I'd like see the biography started, at least.

I'd like to see it written, but, of course, that's not possible.

I'd like to find a way that would encourage people to participate in government.

As I looked in the dictionary not long ago, people are the government, and if they don't care enough about their government to practice and be citizens that they should be, there's something very wrong, and I would like so much to find a way to correct that.

- One example, maybe.

How do we get people more interested?

Hearing people about careers like yours, perhaps?

How do you get more people involved?

That's the big question, isn't it?

- Yes, it's a big question, and I've tried every way, and I think it's not money.

I think that too much money is spent in getting in these campaigns.

I think it's personal work and those surrounding one, and I think this is very, very important.

- It's been a pleasure having you here.

Thank you very much for coming.

- Well, thank you and - Nice to see you.

- welcome back with us.

- Thank you.

Thank you.

And we will be back next week with another edition of "Personally Speaking."

We hope you will join us then.

I'm Patsy Wiggins.

(bright upbeat early 90s music)