(gentle music) - Welcome to Maine Public Book Club.

I'm your host, Bill Nemitz, and today we are meeting with Jennifer Braunfels, author of her first novel, "Everything You Love Ends Up in a Yard Sale."

The title alone grabbed me.

(Jennifer laughing) My wife and I are planning a yard sale right now, so that kind of redefined the whole experience, but - Mm.

Congratulations - Thank you.

- on your first novel.

- Thank you.

It's exciting.

- It's always a huge accomplishment, I'm sure, and tell me about it.

You're an English teacher for a number of years, so I imagine you've been writing for a long time.

At what point did you say, "I've got a novel in me"?

- I took a creative writing class through University of Southern Maine.

It probably was 15 years ago now, and I used to do creative writing in college and high school, and I thought I was really good at it, and it turns out I was not.

(Bill laughing) And so I took this summer course through Stonecoast Writing Program, and I loved it.

And I wrote this short piece.

I thought it was amazing.

It was not.

They tore it to shreds, which they needed to.

- [Bill] That's what those workshops are for.

- Exactly.

They did their job.

But they did say, "There's something here to work with."

And so I took that one short story and sort of built the entire story around it.

- Ah!

So that was the nugget for this story.

- Yeah, a lot of people will say, "Oh, I have this idea for a novel, and I've gotta write it, and, for me, it started with that one short piece and just... - Well, tell me about that short piece in terms of where it fits into this big piece here.

- So without spoiling too much about the book... - Well, we can talk about the book because we assume - This is true.

- our audience has read it.

So - Okay.

- don't hold back.

- Okay.

- Okay.

- So I went through this experience back in 2008 where I watched somebody that I loved very dearly pass away, and it was a really monumental moment, and so I wanted to write about it, and I wrote about it, but there was something about... It was too close, and so I wanted to turn it into fiction, and so I turned it into fiction.

And then everybody said, "This is good.

"This is maybe the end of your book.

"Maybe it's the beginning of a book, "but you should write around this."

And so that's what I did.

- And I assume in the book that someone obviously is Annie.

- Yes.

- Correct?

- Yes.

- Tell me about Annie.

(Jennifer laughing) We spoke the other day, and I said, you know, "I have a sister who I think is Annie."

I mean, everything about her: the spontaneity, the irreverence, the incredible outgoingness, you know, the fact that you can't walk into a place without eventually talking to everyone there.

Tell me about the inspiration for Annie.

- Well, first I think everyone should have an Annie in their life.

Yes.

I agree.

- Everyone.

everyone needs someone who will tell you like it is, no matter what.

- Yep.

- I love that.

She just came from... I was raised in a really big family.

My mom was one of 13, and so she had seven sisters and a very close family.

And so I had these strong, amazing women raising me.

It was like I had a bunch of moms, and they have these strong personalities, and I always looked up to them, and I thought, "I want to be like that when I grow up.

"I want to just tell it like it is."

But I'm sort of a people pleaser and too kind sometimes to just tell people like it is, but I think that's why I love Annie's character.

She is who I want to be.

- Yeah, and you're Grace, I assume.

(both laughing) You know, as they meet early on in the book, Grace and Liam have just arrived, and, you know, - [Jennifer] Yep.

Liam has disappeared, which he has a habit of doing.

- Yes.

Yes.

- And I was thinking about what it's like to plunk down into a new community, a new neighborhood like that, and at the same time how some people can go months, in some cases, years, without ever meeting their neighbors.

I mean, you might know vaguely who they are, but maybe it's our society these days, but it's amazing how the whole concept of neighbor has changed, and not always in a good way, yet here's Annie, and she shows up.

Now, some people might have been taken aback, maybe even Grace was, but there's an instant bond there.

What is it?

What do you think made that happen instead of Grace saying, "Thank you very much, nice," you know, and then ignoring her for the whole summer.

- I think Grace comes to Maine.

She thinks it's gonna fix everything about her relationship.

But I wanted this to be about friendship, and so I wanted the two of these women to come together almost immediately.

And Annie just has that personality where she will literally kick in the screen door and just sort of barge in.

And I did make a small reference in there about Grace being sort of used to that behavior because she had an overbearing aunt growing up, and so, I think, for Grace, it was just comfortable for this woman to come barging into her life like that.

- Mm.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- And not just with Grace but with the whole community.

There's that scene where, with Grace's Mother, Grace and Annie go to the store, - Yes.

Yeah.

- And they're eating there, and it's like every single person who walks in, she's just, she is of the community very much.

- Very much.

She is, I think there are a lot of people in Maine like that, you know, the talk of the town, the woman in town that knows everybody, knows everything that's going on.

I just, I find that's a very Maine thing.

- Yeah, and kind of gossipy, but they're not necessarily the town gossip because she's too busy giving people her opinion (laughs) - Yes.

Absolutely.

- than being interested in what anyone else has to say.

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

- So you say that Grace and Liam come to Maine in an attempt to recover, right?

- Yes.

- I mean, he had had this dalliance with a Stephanie, a workmate, although I think that there was a lot more going on there than just infidelity.

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- but it sounds to me like the classic and not often successful geographic cure, you know?

- Yes.

- If we can just change our setting, everything's gonna be better, - Yes.

- When, in fact, it gets worse.

- Yes.

Absolutely.

People come to Maine to get away from it all.

People come here from all around to vacation because it's such a peaceful, quiet place.

And so I thought that would be a perfect place to put all of this turmoil that's going on in Grace's life.

- Yeah, you bring that stuff with you, and, in fact, when you come into a place as isolated as Maine, relative to other places, rather than give you an escape from the things that you're trying to resolve, it magnifies them - Yeah, it's right there - because - in your face.

- that's all you got.

- Yep.

Yep.

- Yeah.

So let's talk about Liam.

My question for Liam was, I put it very simply, "Who is Liam more in love with: "Grace, Stephanie, or himself?"

(laughs) - I think it's himself.

- [Bill] Yeah.

- I think even at the end when he, you know, shows up with the necklace and is trying to mend the fence and say, "I'm sorry," and make his amends, I still am not convinced that that was genuine.

I think it was just to save face.

It was maybe a moment of panic of, "Oh, you know, what will people think of me?

"What will her parents think of me?

"I need to make this gesture."

- "What will Peter, the rich guy, think of me?"

Yeah.

Right.

- Well, I mean, he works for Peter, and Peter is just, they have very similar personalities, very all about themselves, don't think much about others, think a lot of themselves, and so I think the two of them (laughs) work really well together.

- Yeah, I tried, and I'm a guy.

(laughs) So, you know, I'm reading this, and I'm thinking, "Mm."

And I'm trying hard to look at this from Liam's perspective.

- [Jennifer] Mm.

- And then, finally, I just can't, - Right.

- you know, because he's just, as you said, he's so self-centered.

When you created him, did you want him to be a scoundrel?

What was your vision of this story?

You had this germ of a story, and you were expanding on it, and, you know, you could make anybody whatever you want, - Mm-hmm.

- but he really comes out, you know, in not a very good light.

- When I first started writing this, he was not as bad of a villain as he ended up being in the book.

- I wondered about that, yeah.

- And just as the book... So, I wrote the book years and years ago, and then I put it away, and then I took it back out all of maybe 10 years later and read it, and I thought, "This is kind of boring."

You know?

It was just more about their relationship, and it was, kind of, you had to slog through it.

And so I thought, "I've gotta throw some more action in there."

And so I just, unfortunately, all of that action fell on Liam.

- Yeah, who's a pretty fertile guy, it turns out, because (laughs) - As it... (both laughing) Yeah.

- all of a sudden, you know, the whole Stephanie being pregnant thing is really the catalyst that blows the whole thing up.

- Yes.

- Yet I'm also thinking about, you know, what it was like from Grace's standpoint and the miscarriage, and I've had the experience in my life, everybody has, where a family member or a friend or someone goes through that, just the agony of a miscarriage.

The thing that struck me is when a young child dies, you know, the community is rocked by it, and, you know, everybody in the world shows up at the doorstep, and, you know, rightly, that family is the center of a lot of attention, - Yep.

- people feeling very heartbroken for them.

- Mm.

- But when it's a miscarriage, it's something different, and I think it was manifest mostly in this story by Grace's extreme difficulty in telling people about it, even while she's having ongoing, sometimes intimate conversations with people who were very close to her.

Talk to us about that.

You know, what was holding her back from just telling the world, "This happened to me."

- It's just an unexpected thing.

I mean, she did not know that she was pregnant in the first place, and so to go through this very large trauma without any warning, you know, was just really, really hard for her.

And then you've got that piece of, "Well, I didn't know.

"And so what kind of mother am I?

"And I've lost this child, "but I'm too scared to tell other people "because I didn't even try for this child, "and so many people do."

And so I think she's just, she's holding onto this secret and doesn't dare tell the world 'cause I don't think she's yet figured out how she is supposed to feel.

- Right, need time to process it herself, especially, as you say that she didn't know, - Right.

- but I mean, it wasn't like she was in the throes of preparing for motherhood at that point.

Right, It was a complete... - It was this terrible thing that happened while she was out for a walk - Yeah.

Yep.

- you know, so.

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Now back to the episode.

Let's talk about Matthew.

- Okay!

- Was it by, well obviously it was by design; you wrote the book.

He's an architect.

Liam's an architect.

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- What made you decide to give them the same profession?

To show there are good architects and bad architects, or?

- Well, I think all of the characters in this book are very opposite.

We've got Grace, who at the beginning is sort of quiet, doesn't really stick up for herself, and then we've got Annie who tells it like it is.

And so I wanted to have sort of an opposite of Liam to show that there are good guys out there and people who care and people that will show up for you and be there for you.

And sort of like, we've got Peter, and then we've got Annie's husband as well, who's this quiet, calm, gentle, giving man.

- Nicest guy in the world.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- And so I wanted all of those people to be in there.

- It's interesting, the balance.

That didn't occur to me 'cause Peter is such a snake.

I mean, - [Jennifer] Yes.

- even worse than Liam.

I mean, come on.

You know, that scene at the party is just, you know, but it happens all the time.

- It does.

It does.

But I think it's important for there to be, you know, good guys and bad guys in every book.

- [Bill] Yeah, definitely.

- Yeah.

- Oh, I also want to ask you about Chance the dog.

- Oh!

(Jennifer laughing) - How did Chance get his name?

- Chance got his name because I knew a Chance.

When I started dating my- - Human or canine?

(both laughing) - I thought of him as human even though he was canine.

- Okay.

(laughs) Okay.

- My husband brought Chance into our relationship.

He was a Border Collie, and I don't mean to brag, but he was the best dog ever.

- [Bill] Ah, okay.

- Just so docile and gentle and just, he was an old man that was just such a love, and so I thought his name has got to be in this book somewhere.

- Ah!

Okay.

Well, I like the choice of name because these people all, well, it's often the case, these people came together by chance, you know, and so he's a nice kind of connector, you know?

- Yeah.

I wanted the name to be meaningful, sort of like Grace.

I didn't want her to have just an everyday name.

I wanted there to be just a little bit of meaning behind the names, and so that's why Chance was chosen.

- And what about Say?

How did she get her name?

- She is loosely based on my best friend growing up.

- Okay.

I thought this sounded a little autobiographical, yeah.

(Jennifer laughing) - My cousin Jeanette, we have been close since the day we were born, and I could not pronounce her name.

And so Jeanette became Netty, Jenetty, and so she just, they have very similar personalities, very strong, independent women, and yet they've got these sort of childlike nicknames, and I really like that.

- Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- The first thing that strikes you when you see this book is of course the title, and I'm thinking, "Okay, well, you know, "when are we gonna get to the yard sale?"

(laughs) but it actually comes out in a very profound line - Yes.

- from Annie.

- Yes.

- as she's preparing for her demise - Yes.

- that everything you love ends up in a yard sale.

Is that something you'd heard before, or did Annie bring that to you?

- I think the concept had come to me before because a friend of mine had this mother-in-law that I loved, again, a personality like Annie's, very strong, and when she passed away, they had a yard sale, and she loved Christmas so there were just so many Christmas decorations out.

And I stood there, and it was really a profound moment for me, and I thought, "These things meant something to her," and that I had this urge to just buy everything because I thought every single piece on this table meant something to her, and that's important.

- And you needed to preserve it?

- Yes.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- So I did.

I bought a couple of things that day, and every year, when I take them out at Christmas, of course I think of her.

- Oh, sure.

- And they mean a lot to me.

- Yeah, I think about that too, as I'm at a point in my life where we're trying to, everybody, you try to downsize, and you don't want to leave a big mess and all that, but that's a brutal process sometimes because things that are so innocuous, like I once went to the Super Bowl and covered the Patriots in the '90s in the Super Bowl, and I brought back a plastic beer cup from the Super Bowl and gave it to my son, and, of course, when you give things like that to your kids, it all ends up back with you anyway.

- Right.

Right.

- But I pick this up now, and I think, "Ah, it's a plastic cup, "but how can I do this?

how can I throw this away?"

- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- So, I also want to talk about Grace, I'm sorry, Annie's demise.

- [Jennifer] Mm.

- You told that with such sensitivity and accuracy, having been through that a number of times with family members, myself, where you go from the whole sick, getting sicker, that fateful moment, in this case, where Grace pulls the doctor aside and finally gets some timeframe for how long Annie has left.

And then, of course, the hospice and that process.

You told it with, as I said, with such clarity and such sensitivity, I had to think that you've probably experienced that yourself in life.

- I did, and as much as I did not want to be Grace or any of the characters in the book, I think with any author, there's a little piece of you in your characters, and so, yeah, I did.

I experienced that with my former father-in-law, and it was so painful, absolutely painful, but I had a lot of people around me, a lot of love around me, and so that's what got me through.

And so I just, I wanted to tell a realistic portrayal of what death looks like.

- Especially at the end, in that kind of aura that comes over a place, whether it's a house, in this case it was, that it's almost otherworldly, - It is.

It is.

- you know, when someone passes after a long slog like that.

- It is.

- People ask me what's the most mystical or spiritual experience you've ever had, and it's always been watching someone pass away.

- Absolutely.

In my experience, when, his name was Norman, when he passed away, the room felt different immediately; immediately, and I knew he was gone, and I don't think a lot of people experience that.

And I just got to see this profound shift, and it sounds maybe a little out of this world, but to watch someone's soul move on to the next place was, it was something, something profound.

- It changes the place.

- It absolutely does.

- Not just us but the whole thing.

And speaking of places, I love how, at the end, on the same day that Bill, who by the way, is probably my favorite character in this whole book.

- He's wonderful!

- I mean he is just the coolest guy and unflappable, - Yep.

- totally supportive - Yep.

of both Annie and Grace, - [Jennifer] Yes who he's known for what, a few months?

- Yes.

- You know.

But he's moving out on the same day that Grace is moving out.

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- And it got me thinking how if, projecting forward, okay, Grace leaves, two weeks later, someone else moves in, and another story starts, - Yes.

- but within these walls, all of this happened, and - So much.

this is probably a little too out there, but it's the old adage, "If these walls could talk."

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- And you walk into a building that has been inhabited many times.

I live in a house that was built in 1790, so sometimes I get spooked.

- Right.

- You know?

- [Jennifer] Yeah.

- It's all the things that have taken place within these four walls.

It's almost like hallowed ground.

Is there any place in your life where you've lived that, you know, has that "My whole life is here."

feel to it?

- I feel that way when I go to my parents' house.

My mom passed away four years ago, and, as odd as it sounds, when I go into their house, I feel she is around because so much has happened there, and I just feel that that is a place where she is.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

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Now, back to the book.

(graphic whooshing) Now you're an English teacher.

- Yes.

- I mentioned that earlier.

How long?

20?

- 28 years.

- 28 years?

- Yes.

- When did you decide you wanted to be an English teacher?

Were you a good English student?

- I was a good English student.

Honestly, I decided to become an English teacher about a month.

I had gotten a letter saying, "Congratulations, you're gonna graduate in May "with a degree in English," And I thought, "What - This was from where?

- "next?"

- Where did you go to school?

University of Maine Orono.

- Okay.

- And I got that letter, and I thought, "Well, wait!

"Oh, this is real life!

"What do I do with an English degree?"

I had no idea what I was gonna do.

And I was working for the Department of Education at the time, at University of Maine Orono.

I had a work study job.

And my boss said, "You'd be a good teacher.

"You've got a good personality for that."

And I thought, "Mm, that has never occurred to me."

(Bill laughing) But she set me up with a job at Orono Middle School as an Ed tech, and I got assigned almost a one-on-one with a really, really naughty boy that I ended up adoring.

He just needed a little bit of extra love.

- [Bill] Yep.

- And I decided right then and there that I wanted to teach the rest of my life.

- And you wanted to teach English.

Why English?

- I've always loved reading and writing, and I'm terrible at math, so.

(Bill laughing) - Many writers are.

- The choice was clear.

I had to do English.

No, I get really, really passionate about the things that I read and about writing, and so it's really fun to bring that passion to my students that I teach.

- Were you a writer as a young child?

Did you write stories?

- When I was little, I would write books.

I would create these books and put my name on the cover, and we would play library.

It was always, - [Bill] Oh my.

- you know, that sort of thing growing up, and so, I mean, in high school I did a lot of writing and in college, and I thought it was just so profound, and I look back at it now, and it's so terrible.

- Yeah, it's dangerous to save that stuff, isn't it?

(laughs) - It is.

It is so bad, and at the time, I just thought it was a masterpiece.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I was gonna ask you if you could read a little bit of your excellent writing for us now that you have achieved novel status.

- Sure.

- Do you have something that you might be able to share with us?

- Sure.

- Okay.

- I'll just read from the first chapter when Grace and Liam are first getting to Maine, and we get our first glimpse of Annie.

- [Bill] Okay.

- "As soon as I pull into the driveway, "I jump out of the car "and breathe in the salty smell of the ocean.

"I want to dive right into the waves, "but Liam would want me to get right down "to the business of unpacking.

"I open the trunk "only to try and then fail "to lift out an over-packed suitcase."

"As I do my best "to unload as much as I can before Liam arrives, "I smell cigarette smoke, which stops me.

"To my left, a woman stands in her front yard.

"She stares at me, "then takes a slow drag off a slender cigarette.

"I too know the pleasure of a slim, cool, and minty Misty.

"I used to wait tables on summer break to help pay tuition.

"We waitresses would fight over the packs of smokes "the older ladies left behind.

"They never left good cigs "like Marlboros or Parliament Lights.

"At the end of a long shift though, "nothing tasted better than a Misty "under the flickering lights in the parking lot.

"The woman's cigarette dangles "between two fingers with long nails "that resemble white picket fence posts.

"In her other hand, she holds a diamond-studded dog leash "that trails down to a small white poodle "with blue bows tied onto its ears.

"At no point does this woman try to look away from me.

"Instead, she purses her lips, "with God as my witness, "blows the most perfect series of smoke rings "I have ever seen.

"As the afternoon sun beats down on me, "I have to squint to get a better view of this bold woman.

"I smile and wave."

- Hmm.

You write in the present tense.

- I do.

- Do you do that all the time, or was that a conscious decision you made for this book?

- It's a decision that I made for this book because I wanted it to feel more immediate and more in real time, and I thought that would be better than past tense.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I have one other question.

Whenever I talk to a teacher, I always think about the students.

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- And I know that teaching these days, is a very difficult job with all the boxes that need to be checked and guidelines that need to be followed.

Do your students get to do a lot of fiction writing?

- I try to fit in as much as I can.

It's not always big essays or anything like that, but I really try to do a lot of creative stuff with them where they put themselves in characters' shoes and write from their perspective or write a letter to a character, write to an advice column as if they're the character and then write back with what advice they would give if they could, and those are the assignments that they really, really like.

- And your advice to them is to what?

Just, it's a scary thing, especially for people who don't do it.

- It is.

- How do you get them over those jitters, "Everybody's gonna think I'm stupid.

"Everybody's gonna think this is awful."

You know, that kind of thing.

What do you tell them?

- Everybody in class is gonna do it.

And so everybody is gonna put themselves out there.

And oftentimes I'll have them write stuff, and then they pass it around, and we share anonymously, and that way, kids who are scared to share their work can have their work shared without the terror of having to put their name to it.

- Exactly.

That's the frightening part.

- Yeah.

- Well, a final question.

This story ends looking forward.

Is this the end of Grace?

Or, I mean, I gotta think she ends up with Matthew, right?

- So this is a question that I get all the time.

- [Bill] I'm sure you do.

- And, growing up, I hated books that had endings that I didn't know what was gonna happen.

I wanted to know.

I want people to wonder.

You know, I think they know she's going to maybe go be with Matthew, but I like the uncertainty.

I like that this book does not end with the woman riding off into the sunset with the perfect man.

- And they lived happily ever after.

- Yeah, I wanted her to have some choices to make and take a look and decide, "What do I want?"

- Ah, well that's- - So I'm not sure there's gonna be a sequel because, I mean, without Annie, I'm not sure there's much of a story here.

- That's a good point.

Annie drove the narrative.

She really did.

- She did.

I'm not sure I would want a book without her.

- Okay!

Well we'll all write our own sequel.

How's that?

(Jennifer laughing) - Write your ending.

- Everybody can decide how they wanted it to go from there.

- Yes.

- I wish we had more time.

These go by so fast.

But, again, I want to congratulate you on a great first novel.

I hope it's not your last.

And keep writing.

- Thank you so much.

- Okay.

Thanks for joining us.

- Thank you.

(graphics whooshing) (gentle music)