(gentle music) - Hello, and welcome to the October gathering of the "Maine Public Book Club."

I'm your host, Bill Nemitz, and with me today is Lewis Robinson, author of "The Islanders."

And Lewis, I have to tell you, my head is still spinning.

I just finished the book two or three days ago, and when it comes to climactic endings, you certainly have a knack.

Welcome to "Maine Book Club."

- Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for reading.

- Yeah, it was great.

It was a great week.

I just want to start off by finding a little bit about you.

- [Lewis] Sure.

- And your background.

And we'll get into how you came to write this book.

This is not your first book.

- Yeah, this is my third published book.

Yeah.

- Well, congratulations on that.

- Thanks.

- And give us a quick bio here, how you came to be where you are.

- Well, let's see, I think I first got obsessed with writing when I was in college, really.

I mean, I'd been always kind of a tinkerer and a reader, but then in college, I kind of beared down on the short story form.

And then for the next, you know, seven or eight years, that's what I was trying to do, was write good, you know, 10 to 20 page stories and went to graduate school at the University of Iowa.

And that's where I think I really like signed on to the life of writing and met a great group of fellow writers.

And then it was not long after that that I moved back to Maine and published my first collection called "Officer Friendly."

And then- - [Bill] That was a collection of short stories.

- That was a collection of short stories, yep.

And so written mostly in Iowa, like when I had that 1,000 mile distance from Maine.

And I think the details that stayed with me from growing up in Maine, you know, distilled and... But then I was, yeah, back in Maine and wrote my first novel called "Waterdogs*" that came out in 2009.

And then there was a long stretch of time before this book came out, raising kids and teaching, and you know, always writing, but moving more slowly.

- This is a hefty piece here.

I mean, I guess you were... How long did it take you to write this book?

I'm curious.

- I mean, so yeah, there were a bunch of years between that second and third book, but it really was, you know, it was about five years, four or five years, yeah.

- It's a long time to sit with a story, right?

But this is a complex story, I must say, and I was really struck by just the contrast in characters, which we can get into.

But the first thing that I want to share with you that hit me when I wrote this book, not too long ago, maybe six months ago, I have a friend who I won't name, he's probably not watching anyway, but he's very, very wealthy and skews right politically.

But we go back a long way, so it doesn't matter.

And he said to me one night that there was going to be, in very foreboding terms, that there is going to be, as things get more and more supercharged politically, climate-wise, economically, there's going to be this migration north.

Kind of a, "They're all coming for us," kind of thing.

And it was the basis of his point, I think, was rooted in his desire that we need to keep shoring up the borders.

And we've had this discussion before, but I asked him, I said, "What are you going to do?

What are you going to do if that happens?"

And he said, "Well, you know, I'm of sufficient means that I'm sure I can make arrangements to protect myself and my family."

And I just.

(shivers) - You're like wait a second.

- I walked away from that conversation kind of spooked by it.

But then when I read this, I said, "My goodness, it's the same mentality, that there's this kind of a sense of foreboding."

And, "They're coming to get us."

Talk to us about that, that mentality that seemed so pervasive on Whaleback Island.

- Yeah, yeah.

So the rich folks on the island who own the island who are starting this leadership program are similarly nervous and you know, they think that, you know, that people are going to be coming for their stuff, you know?

So they're wanting to be prepared for that.

And, you know, the story is told from the perspective of one of the kids that they recruit for this leadership program.

So we don't really know what's going on in the hearts and minds of the wealthy folks who own the island.

But there are a couple of them that we get to see in scene a bunch.

And yeah, they're nervous about the changes.

- Paul Brevard and Joey McClain.

- [Lewis] McLean, yes.

- They seem to be the embodiment of the island.

- [Lewis] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

- And they are a couple of paranoid dudes.

- Yeah, they are.

And I think that, you know, one of the things that I think it's, it's important for, you know, just how the book works, that they're kind of outliers.

It's not everybody on the island who's kind of like on board with this mission, this nefarious mission, but they have kind of taken charge and they, you know they are fueled by cynicism and paranoia and yeah, they want to take action.

- Yeah, witness the fact that it all takes place out of sight and out of mind from the rest of the islanders because it's during the off season that all these things are happening.

Talk to me about the, as you said, the protagonist is Walt and it's a first person narrator.

So where did Walt come from?

- [Lewis] Yeah, yeah.

- You know, I mean, do you see parts of you and Walt?

Often people will draw on their own biographical experience.

Where did Walt come from?

- I love Walt.

I don' see myself as Walt, but I do have a lot of compassion for him and yeah, certain parts of my biography are similar to his.

And I grew up off and on a school campus because my dad worked at, well, first the Nichols School in Buffalo, New York.

And then when I was 10, we moved to Maine and he became the headmaster of North Yarmouth Academy.

So I kind of, I grew up on that little campus and, you know, friends with teachers' kids and also the teachers who lived there.

And so that whole world is definitely something that you know, I experienced.

His, you know, playing hockey, I did really want to get a little bit into that, that culture, the hockey culture.

And it was around... - Because North Yarmouth Academy had a pretty good hockey program, right?

- Yeah, they did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I was also, I mean, I think a writer thrives kind of as an outsider.

And it was around that time.

So I had grown up playing hockey in Buffalo and then continued to play hockey when I moved to Maine.

But then quit hockey to play basketball, but was still kind of fascinated by the culture.

- Were you a goalie?.

- I was not a goalie, but I've always been, I mean, this is getting into the weeds a little bit, but I continue to play hockey.

I play every Tuesday and Thursday morning.

And the goalies are fascinating to me.

- They're a breed apart.

- They are.

Yeah.

They really are.

They're usually just kind of, yeah, they're islands.

You know, they kind of do their own thing.

Walt is someone who kind of refuses to be coached.

- [Bill] Yeah.

- He's also, I mean, there are a few differences for me.

Like he's got some violent tendencies.

I mean, I think he's got a good heart, but I don't see myself as particularly violent.

But, so, yeah.

And he is also probably quieter than I am.

He's someone who is both like, you know, prone to violence and also he's very kind of, you know, introverted.

- Yes.

Yes.

Have a favorite quote from this book?

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Now back to the book.

It's interesting that you say, I'm going to jump ahead.

I was going to bring this up later, but I will now.

He is introverted.

And he's understated.

And he really doesn't talk a lot.

- [Lewis] Yeah, yeah.

- I mean, he describes a lot because he's the narrator.

But what struck me as I was getting into the latter part of the book was he's clearly held in high esteem by his peers.

But he's not one to lead the charge.

I think Tess is probably the one much more so who's going to be, let's go, let's go.

Yet he has that moment where he's summoned to the other island and Brevard, I think it's Brevard, who tells him, you're number one.

- [Lewis] Yeah.

- We chose you number one.

And my first reaction was, oh, I'll bet you tell that to all the kids, you know?

But at the same time, it became apparent as that scene evolved that no, really, you know, Walt is the superstar here.

Why do you think, as the person who created all these people, why him?

Why did they choose him?

What was it about him that made him their top recruit?

- Yeah.

Well, this is one of the intentions that I had for that moment is, you know, the reader should be left wondering, you know, why.

Is this a genuine kind of appointment that they're making?

Do they just see him as someone who is easily manipulated?

Do they just see him as someone who could really be like a good company man?

Or is he in fact like a great leader?

So I think it, I don't know.

I think it is kind of a combination.

I mean, he has excelled in the program.

- Yeah, he has his moments.

It's like with the Quarry where he goes across and all that.

- But you're right to think that Tess is actually the real leader of their huddle, their group.

But I think that she's someone that makes the, you know, McLean and Brevard nervous.

You know, they see her as a threat.

You know, they see her as someone who, you know, could be more of like a insurrectionist.

- She's always the first one to challenge.

- [Lewis] Yeah, yeah.

- Every time, you know, and in sync with my own mind, you know, I'd say, well, wait a minute.

And Tess is saying, well, wait a minute.

She was always ready to jump in.

So I can see where, you know, among her peers, she was, I think without question the leader.

But for their purposes, I guess not so much.

Let's talk about Paul Brevard because when I read about him and I saw how carefully he, how manipulative he was.

And how he kind of groomed Walt through his daughter to even consider this crazy idea.

He really emerged more and more as a predator.

- Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

- And it got me thinking about, you know, we've seen a lot of that kind of thing over the past 20, 30 years, Catholic church, things like that.

Where, you know, there are a certain type of kid that these people will identify and Walt fit that bill, correct?

His family was not in very good shape.

- [Lewis] Yeah.

Yeah.

- And Brevard moved in.

- Yeah, for sure.

Were we supposed... How did you feel about Brevard?

I guess that's the best way to put it.

I mean, I ended up despising the guy.

I assume you did too.

- Yeah.

I mean, because the story is told from his perspective, from Walt's perspective.

I think it's hard not to despise him, just the impact that he's having on Walt's family and, you know, his old friend, Paul's daughter.

And just like what's happening with the program, yeah, it's hard, hard not to dislike him.

I mean, he's the kind of character who, when I encounter in real life, I'm actually kind of charmed by.

You know, he is someone who is you know, very confident.

You know, when I think of Paul Brevard, I think of the scene late in the book when he goes out to dinner with his daughter and Walt and... - This is the recruiting mission?

- Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, you get to see him a little bit.

I mean, he's pompous.

Yeah, he's arrogant and... - Dismissive of his daughter.

- And dismissive of his daughter.

They have that kind of rapport.

But I also just, I think he's an interesting character.

I like a character like that, I have to admit, like a villain like that who's, you know, just powerful in some ways.

And I mean, we don't see a lot of vulnerability.

Normally, you know, if this story was to continue or if, say this was a trilogy or something, I would probably want to find a way to humanize him a bit more, just to kind of maybe see things from his point of view, but that's not his role in this book.

You know, he's really a foil to Walt.

- Well, you see that moment at the end where he's, you know, the vulnerability where he's literally pleading, "Don't shoot me."

- [Lewis] There is that.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was finally at that late and climactic moment, there's a crack in his veneer.

- He's like, "Oh, wait a second.

Maybe I've overstepped here."

- Maybe, maybe this thing's gotten a little out of control.

- Speaking of Alessandra, whose side was she on?

- Yeah.

I think, you know, I think, you know, she's a kid.

She's very, she's a brainy kid.

She's a powerful kid.

She's got a lot of social capital.

I think, I mean, I think she was trying to be on Walt's side, but she also sees maybe her connection with Walt as fleeting and he's not a particularly powerful character or at least she doesn't think so at this point.

- And she's used to dating Jock, the guy that ends up getting the tire beat out of him by Walt.

But she just struck me as, you know, kind of a privileged.

And that gets us back to the whole private school thing.

Because you lived this as the child of staff and in your case headmaster.

What is it that sets that world apart from the average public school?

- Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well I mean, it's interesting.

My vantage as like, right, child of staff at a school like that, you're kind of like straddling two worlds, you know.

And I saw this with the other like faculty kids.

Like they're the, you know, the the children of, you know, school teachers and so they have a certain vantage on the school.

And then of course, like the rest of the school, most of them are from families that, you know, that can afford a big tuition.

And I think NYA in particular at that time, it was, you know, that the choice to go to NYA as opposed to like going to the public schools in that area, which were all quite good.

Yeah, it's kind of a curious choice.

- But it's an insular.

It has its owN politics and its own... And and it has its own rules.

- Yeah, yeah, for sure.

For sure.

The thing is Walt takes off in the truck and his father's the grounds guy and his father's out in Minnesota and he takes off in the school pickup.

And I'm thinking, you know, if that were a public school he wouldn't have made it past New York before someone would have picked him up because they would have reported the truck stolen.

None of that happens here.

- Well, and that's actually a great point that you're raising is that the school, and schools like this, kind of pride themselves on just making their own rules.

Like they are, and often, you know, discipline matters are just handled in-house.

They try to like kind of like keep it just within the community.

So yeah, that's a big difference between the public school.

- Thanks to Highland Green, Island Port Press and Coffee by Design for their generous support of the club.

Without organizations like these, shows like this would not be possible.

I'm going to shift gears a little bit here.

there were times many times in reading this book that I felt positively hypothermic.

It was so cold all the time.

The water's cold, the air's cold.

You very artfully and descriptively talk about the natural elements on this island and the wind when you're wet.

And that kind of stuff.

And I'm thinking, well, yeah, I'd be dead after the first month.

Was that deliberate on your part to try to make this a really uncomfortable place?

- Yeah.

I mean, that was so important to the the crafting of the narrative is, okay, I want to make sure that the reader feels situated in each moment and, you know, feels as though they're present and you know, vulnerable to the elements.

And this is a summer resort island and they have built this leadership program for the off season and the kids arrive at Labor Day and, you know, the days are starting to get shorter, it's starting to get colder, you know, the weather's getting more extreme.

They're still being asked to swim in the water.

So in order for all of that to feel real, I needed to try to like recreate it, you know, through sensory details.

But yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm glad that this book has been chosen as the October selection because it's like the perfect time.

It's like, just as things are really turning and, you know, so as they're kind of like trying to figure out what's going on with this program, it's getting darker and colder.

And so that weather is kind of mirroring the threat.

- Did you spend any time in terms of research on any islands to... Is there an island that you based this on?

I looked at, Maine doesn't have a whale back island, I checked.

It has a whaleback lighthouse, but it doesn't have a whale back island.

- I think of Monhegan as being the whaleback.

I mean, this, and I worked on the Laura B, the ferry to Monhegan.

- Oh, you did?

- Yep.

As, when I was in college.

And you know, so got glimpses at that culture.

It's, you know, pretty different from whaleback.

But the island that it most closely resembles in my mind is Hurricane Island where for many years the the Outward Bound Program was based.

And that was another job that I had was, well, my dad worked for many years as an instructor on Hurricane Island and then I took a course before my senior year of high school.

And then I took the instructor training course where we had to like run the capsize drill and that was always in May when the water was very cold.

And then I worked as an instructor for a couple summers during college.

- So you based a lot of the regimen?

- [Lewis] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

- Because it sounds very Outward boundish, you know, what they were doing.

I want to have you read a little bit from this if you would.

And I think what you're going to do is you're going to, this is basically Walt's introduction to Waleback Island, correct?

- Yes.

Yeah.

So this is when he and the other you know, 49 kids have been assembled there.

And they're just, you know, having their first interactions with each other and also just like getting a introduction to the physical parts of the island, the trails.

And and so this scene, yeah, they're being led through the forest to the kind of opening banquet that the club members are having in their honor.

"The forest was dark and cool, and when the trail narrowed, we walked single file and stayed quiet.

Columns of light came down through gaps in the trees.

The wood smelled of pine sap and bleached crab shells and skunk cabbage and mossy boulders.

After about 15 minutes of navigating through the stale cool air over roots and rocks and wood chips, we saw the orange light of fire.

The Bayberry Trail emptied out onto the 18th fairway, lush mossy green.

No one was playing, so we trumped right across it toward the main clubhouse where a hoard of club members stood chatting beside tiki torches.

Spotting us, many of these club members hunched over to place their drinks by their feet and applaud.

They formed a channel through which they beckoned us to walk to the clubhouse.

We'd seen the grounds from a distance earlier in the day, but being there atop the springy grass was thrilling.

Faint light, the smell of cut grass and booze.

The adults were loud, exuberant, definitely drunk.

We'd done nothing to deserve their cheers.

We'd agreed to come to the island, that's it.

But these club members were howling their approval and they were much better dressed than us in our sweaty shorts and running shoes.

The male club members in pleaded slacks and loafers, golf shirts, the women in wraparound skirts or long kilts and cardigan cable knit sweaters.

Their skin was pink or tan and looked as though they'd recently bathed.

Perhaps they'd been playing tennis earlier or they'd been out for a sunny hike around the island.

I found out later most of them had no idea why we were there except that we were part of a leadership program.

A group of older women with freckled chests and gold jewelry beamed in a way that made me want to live up to their expectations.

A few of the older gentlemen were wearing thin ties, identical thin blue ties, a club staple along with the same dark blazer and a coat of arms on the breast pocket.

We were the last to enter the clubhouse and as we did, the two lines of club members followed us in."

So that's just a little, little taste of their introduction to the world of the Island.

- And what I liked about that part of the book early on is I was, as a reader, I'm wondering what are they really there for?

And the kids are thinking for the kids, it's the same thing.

I mean, they really don't seem, you've been very sparing in how much, at least in writing the book, how much information these kids have as to what the heck they're doing out there.

Other than leadership.

Some kind of leadership thing.

Were you deliberately under... And for another example, we know that Brevard arranged with Walt's mother to send him out there, but we never see that.

We never hear that.

It's just implied.

Were you deliberately understated there?

Does that leave more up to the imagination?

- Yeah, I wanted to keep it, you know, keep the cards close to my chest there because it's really important that the reader only know what Walt knows.

Although you just offered an example of, like, a couple of details that even Walt knows, but he's not sharing with, you know, in the narration.

But yeah, I think it's important that he's really in the dark at the beginning.

He has this sense that he's been chosen for some reason, but he also has this sense that those, most of the kids who've been chosen were like plucked from juvenile detention centers and were like bad actors.

- Or maybe not.

- [Lewis] Yeah, or maybe not.

- I mean, that was their story, but that wasn't necessarily the truth.

- And then what I was hoping is that at first, you know, there's this kind of confusion and then there's a feeling of, oh, actually this could be a good opportunity.

Like I really, I felt that it was important for them to have some hope that things could really work out well for them.

And that maybe there were jobs in their future and maybe this was an opportunity to like get ahead and to be trusted and to be used, but in a good way.

And then that changes.

- The one person I would exclude from that is Aubrey.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Aubrey has an agenda.

- Yeah, yeah.

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Now back to the episode.

Talk to us about how you developed her as a character, starting, of course, with the fact that until the very end of the book, she never speaks.

But also that she has, as I said, she has an agenda here.

- Yeah, she does.

Yeah.

- [Bill] Why the no speaking part?

- Yeah.

Well, let's see.

I mean, I think that's just how she came to me.

It was helpful in a way because she's not, I mean, she's obviously more silent than Walt is, but they have that in common.

They're both observers.

They're both, yeah, they hold back.

But she is, you know, she is someone who has been traumatized.

You know, her family's been traumatized.

So I wanted to have like a very accessible way for the reader to witness that and to feel that.

So and you know, she's not able to share with anyone until she is is going on with her.

- Did she, I couldn't figure out whether she was planning all along to execute Joey McLean as she did in the end or if that was just an opportunity that presented itself.

- Yeah.

I think that, I don't think that was her plan.

That's what I was trying to answer.

- [Bill] So she wasn't there to get revenge for her mother.

- I mean, I think she was wanting to be somewhat of a mole and to find out more.

And, you know, I think she was harboring a lot of anger about what had happened to her mother, but I don't think she was premeditating, you know, what unfolded.

Yeah.

That's my take.

You know, you probably are a better judge.

- Bryce didn't light up when she saw the guns.

- I mean, you know, well, yeah.

- Maybe that was, she sensed an opportunity there, but it was shocking the way it all unfolded.

And I'm wondering if... I like to ask sometimes when you have many, multiple and varied characters here, who's your favorite?

I assume Walt's your favorite character in this book?

- Yeah, Walt is probably my favorite.

I mean, I think I love Tess too.

I mean, really all of the kids, I think my favorite, this is a bit of a cop out, but the eight kids in that huddle, I really like feel a lot of affection for all of them.

- [Bill] I love Corsetti.

- Yeah, and Corsetti, right?

But I mean, Grunwald is also a character that we haven't talked about who plays an important role.

- We're running out of time, but let's touch on him because he's hard as nails at the beginning.

He's not quite what you think he was in the end.

He's just another guy that got used by these people.

- Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, I think, I found it gratifying to kind of witness his evolution.

He does seem to be one type of person and then he's got this kind of awakening and he really sides with the kids, which I was glad that that happened for him.

- He becomes a much more likable character at that point.

- We only have a minute or so left, but I do want to ask you this because so much of what, as I said at the outset, the undercurrent was fear and it was sinister and it was evil and everything about this place.

Yet some good came out of it.

- Oh, yeah.

- Talk briefly about that.

What, you know, the silver lining in every cloud, I guess.

- Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it gives them an opportunity to galvanize, to come together.

I think that there's, yeah, some good does come of this crucible that they've presented the kids with.

And, you know, I think that a lot of the feelings that I have about this place are are from how I feel about the two kind of villains that we we get to see a bunch of, but I don't think the place is necessarily like an evil place.

- It's more what's happening.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- No sequel on this?

- Nothing planned.

I'm working on a book that's completely different right now.

So yeah.

- [Bill] Okay.

- But you know... - [Bill] Hey, you never know.

- I did have some, you know, intention of writing the next part of the story from Aubrey's perspective.

But we'll see if that ever happens.

- She's got a lot to say.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah she does.

- More ways than one.

We are out of time.

I could keep going on this Because there's so many layers to this story that that it's a great read.

"The Islanders" highly recommend it and Lewis Robinson, thanks for joining us.

- Thank you, Bill.

- And thank all of you for joining us.

We'll see you next time on Maine Public Book Club.

(gentle music)